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kristof65

How do you feel about multiple projects being open by the same creator

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Should a company start a new Kickstarters before delivering their last one?  I think it depends very much, and makes me consider how much I trust the creator.

If the creator is one with a very strong record and reputation on Kickstarter, then I have no problem backing them.

On the other hand, I believe that Kickstarter will block a creator from making a second campaign without delivering their first.  I completely agree with this- I think the first campaign should be fulfilled before a second one is started.

Any company that does this does make me worry that they're trying to bring in more money to delivery on their last campaign (which could put the current campaign at risk).  I'm more worried about that with a smaller company, but that is a real concern with a larger company as well.

And in any case, no matter what red flags are not present, it is entirely possible that the game will fail to deliver (I'm a Super Dungeon Legends backer, and that project was Red Flag Free until well after it funded).

 

Now, should a company start working on its next project behind the scenes (or even openly) before they're finished with delivery?  Absolutely they should.  But sometimes they shouldn't start their next Kickstarter before the first one is delivered.

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For me, I look at how big a company is. If they are big enough to have multiple creative teams for their different projects, I am more likely to support two overlapping projects. I have had small publishers do this for books. Different authors, same editing team, same printer. No problem. Some have different teams for different stages. That can work too with a solid history. When you have the same person/people trying to work on multiple projects at once, it is a big red flag in my opinion. 

 

For the most part, I will not back another project by the same creator before the first is fulfilled. 

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At this point, the biggest burn I’ve had on Kickstarter is one that was a second Kickstarter while the creators were still fulfilling a first.  Looks like nobody will get anything out of the second except for a couple of lucky (?) people who got the prototypes delivered (apparently) to keep the rest of us quiet. :devil:

 

So my rule now is one at a time, and never spend more than I can lose.  

 

But, yeah, a second active Kickstarter would be a major red flag.

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People need to realize that for a lot of kickstarter projects, the "estimated time for delievery" is just a ploy. People would not back a project if the ETA is 2+ years, but would jump onboard if the ETA is 6 months. So, to gain support, a lot of creators just put in whatever ETA that looks good.

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19 minutes ago, Grefven said:

People need to realize that for a lot of kickstarter projects, the "estimated time for delievery" is just a ploy. People would not back a project if the ETA is 2+ years, but would jump onboard if the ETA is 6 months. So, to gain support, a lot of creators just put in whatever ETA that looks good.

 

That might be true, but I don't know enough project creators to be able to say that with any confidence. I actually think that unwarranted optimism and a deep lack of understanding of the general friction of business are more likely in most cases.

 

But to the extent that what you say is true, that's an argument for very limited tolerance of blown deadlines. If you're going to lie to me (and saying you expect to deliver on a particular timeline that you know to be incorrect can only be called a lie), my sympathy for you just hit zero.

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43 minutes ago, Grefven said:

So, to gain support, a lot of creators just put in whatever ETA that looks good.

 

I'll just add that, with SG's, there's no way for creators to accurately estimate *to the month* that KS requires. *Retailers* don't even give estimates like this. They do quarterly targets.

Also, SG's were never part of KS. They were added by a creator, and the idea became popular. I do notice nowadays, though, various projects that don't have SG's, to keep the project manageable.

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On that subject- I gained a LOT of respect for Adam Poots of Kingdom Death when he announced that the game would be delayed BEFORE the Kickstarter was over.

The reasons were obvious, but I was impressed with his ability to be open and realistic with backers- even when they still had a chance to pull out.

Edited by odinsgrandson
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Well, this thread was timely!

 

Devil May Cry by Steamforged Games is coming up, but SG has four (?) KS outstanding, plus Cats and Catacombs (?). Reviews of SG's Dark Souls (?) have been negative about the grind part of the game. A BGG review of their Residential Evil game is pretty negative about the components (unless you like dark tiles and dark doors) and gameplay. One KS comment said the miniature quality can vary quite a bit. Eh, I've pledged for Bloodborne KS, so that'll keep me busy...!

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There is no simple answer.

If it's an established company with a good track record, I might back even if they have not yet delivered the previous (!) Kickstarter (as you can see with Ninja Division, this is not fool-proof). But I won't back even an established company if they have more than one or two projects that have not been delivered. I always get the feeling I'd be financing the previous KS with my money and in order to fulfill mine, they'd have to start another KS (and rip the new backers off).

If the first project has not yet been delivered and the company starts a second one, I'll probably not back.

 

Much more important to me is how the company communicates. If they are delayed and start a second KS, but their communication is regular and open, that's a plus. But if backers constantly have to remind them that an update is due (and those updates don't say much), I'll pass.

 

And: There is always a bit of a risk ... you can try to minimize it. But maybe sometimes the project is so much WANT that you are willing to take a higher risk (as I did with Stone Skull Studios furniture KS - I went in knowing very well that this was a higher risk (promised a LOT at a cheap price, LOADS of stretch goals etc) and of course now that it's 2 years late, I have no right to complain. But the creator communicates and I have received a small sample of his work this week - which looks great).

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Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've backed a few where the company had multiples going on, but that's usually because I know the company at that point through other Kickstarters.

 

Here's the problem. Let's look at Black Hollows. They had date X in mind. They missed it. So now it's going to be months late. Because they thought it'd be done, they started another one. Fewer backers this time around I noticed. And now the backerkit is open. But they get no further money from me until I get the original KS.

 

I appreciate that the unknown happens.

 

So should the people using Kickstarter as their funding mechanism.  Because no matter how well you plan, someone can get sick. A caster can close down. You could have a car accident. The list of things I've seen happen in Kickstarters is near limitless. Thinking you're not going to have problems because you've got it all down?

 

Well...

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I think two should be the maximum. 

 

Unless it is Oathsworn, doing a succession of their small, short term, KS projects. For Oathsworn there would be an exception. 

 

Otherwise just two: One open for pledges; the other fulfilling. 

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Well now...  This is a scenario I'm going to have to actually consider whether or not I'm willing to deal with, since Punga Miniatures is launching Pi'Rats in a few days....  But hasn't started fulfilling Canitaurs&Felitaurs yet >.>;;;;

 

Yup, Skaven are making me consider such, especially since the planned list seems to work rather well with a number of the things I want for my Skaven horde... :ph34r:

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I am reminded of when my Dad found out I had started playing poker for money. He sat down, cleaned me OUT, and then told me "Never gamble what you can't afford to lose." Was the best lesson I ever got on money.

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4 hours ago, WhiteWulfe said:

Well now...  This is a scenario I'm going to have to actually consider whether or not I'm willing to deal with, since Punga Miniatures is launching Pi'Rats in a few days....  But hasn't started fulfilling Canitaurs&Felitaurs yet >.>;;;;

 

Yup, Skaven are making me consider such, especially since the planned list seems to work rather well with a number of the things I want for my Skaven horde... :ph34r:

 

This is something for me to consider.  I had no interest in Canitaurs & Felitaurs, so had completely forgotten about it.  I'm considerably more interested in Pi'Rats, and I'm not yet sure whether this being on top of a yet-to-be-fulfilled project will affect my decision to back.

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On 5/3/2019 at 5:23 PM, Doug Sundseth said:

 

That might be true, but I don't know enough project creators to be able to say that with any confidence. I actually think that unwarranted optimism and a deep lack of understanding of the general friction of business are more likely in most cases.

 

But to the extent that what you say is true, that's an argument for very limited tolerance of blown deadlines. If you're going to lie to me (and saying you expect to deliver on a particular timeline that you know to be incorrect can only be called a lie), my sympathy for you just hit zero.

 

The funding goals for Kickstarter projects are also increasingly fictions.  I know of a couple of board game projects that lost money even though they raised much more than their funding goal.

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