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Cicciopiu

50209 - Alice and White Rabbit

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Yeah, I like them too, but in my opinion the contrasts on Alice's skin are way too strong. It lets her look like she's got a sunburn.

 

But apart from that: well done!

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2 minutes ago, SisterMaryNapalm said:

Yeah, I like them too, but in my opinion the contrasts on Alice's skin are way too strong. It lets her look like she's got a sunburn.

 

But apart from that: well done!

 

This can be toned down by glazing the skin midtone over it till the desired effect is reached.

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4 hours ago, SisterMaryNapalm said:

Yeah, I like them too, but in my opinion the contrasts on Alice's skin are way too strong. It lets her look like she's got a sunburn.

 

But apart from that: well done!


Thank you SisterMaryNapalm for your advice, that's the reason I love this forum, this is not the first time I get useful advice.
Sooo you're telling me that my "add more contrast quest" went too far! Now that you pointed it i can't stop thinking Alice look like a lobster :ik_oops:
Yes you are right, time to get back at the desk and try to correct her skin!
Thank you again ^_^
 

 

4 hours ago, Glitterwolf said:

This can be toned down by glazing the skin midtone over it till the desired effect is reached.


Don't know if will be better to do what you say or to make the shadows less reddish... don't know, I'm looking for a pale skin and glazing it may turn her a bit too bronzed.

Have to try both glazing the shades and add more base flash without touch the highlights... I'll show you the result eventually :poke:
Thank you for your advice!

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7 hours ago, Cicciopiu said:


Thank you SisterMaryNapalm for your advice, that's the reason I love this forum, this is not the first time I get useful advice.
Sooo you're telling me that my "add more contrast quest" went too far! Now that you pointed it i can't stop thinking Alice look like a lobster :ik_oops:
Yes you are right, time to get back at the desk and try to correct her skin!
Thank you again ^_^

 

Good to hear. I had different experiences, and that finally made me take the time for a second and third thought about a figure and the way it is painted, so I can give my thoughts more carefully instead of going the basic way of "like it", "nice", "great" and so on.

 

The question (once again from my point of view) is, what you want to achieve and what you are happy with. I mean, you have got strong contrasts on the fabric and the rabbit, which works great, I think. As @Warlady said: The blues are wonderfully done.

 

I am from a world of anime and manga, and the colors there are mostly close by each other and the effects especially on figures are more or less abstract. There's not so much "richness", using a hundred colors and effects for a skin segment. And that's the way I think.

 

Especially girl and women skin is rather soft and the shading is subtle. Too dark colors and strong differences in highlights, shading and base colors gives the figure a quite masculine look.

 

I tried to find an old version of Alice in Wonderland to illustrate what I mean, but I guess I got the live action and the cartoon movie mixed up and the movie scene I remember being in color is actually black and white. Lol.

Edited by SisterMaryNapalm
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Thank you SisterMaryNapalm, and now that I take here back to the desk... I've noticed that I totally forgot to paint her collar <_<

Also I noticed  the colors on the pics turn very dark, will post some more pictures after reworking her skin!

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Alice & her Rabbit Associate are LOVELY creations, BEAUTIFULLY painted in a fine selection of colors.I love Alice's skin tones; re, they give her a healthy glow. VERY WELL DONE!

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This is a pretty good paintjob at both miniatures. The rabbit is flawless (those who know me, know that I use this word not often haha), Alice is also very good apart from this skin "problem" and the face could be a bit cleaner. I`m just so tough here, because I see that you already have very good skills and you have the most benefit at your current stage from comments which are a bit tougher than usually.

 

I completely agree to SisterMaryNapalm.

 

The reddish skintone respectively the dark reddish shadow is not the main problem. The main problem is:

- It was not diluted enough or too pure.

For to reach smooth transitions there are two most common ways.

1. Use the acrylic paints as transparent layers/filter. This allows you to build up the transition very slowly bit by bit. Always wait until the previous layer is completely dried. This is known as simple Layering.

2. Mixing paints. Take a Midtone and mix in a brighter colour for the highlights (often white is used for this, in this case here it can be also a very bright skintone) and for the dark midtones and shadows mix in a darker colour for example this reddish skintone. 

 

This reddish skintone you use for the shadows is very saturated, very strong. If you wish to find the right tone of suitable darker midtones and shadows in this case you just need to add carefully a very small amount of this dark red, just a little brushtip of this reddish skintone to a way larger amount of your base colour. Try it first on paper and if it is too bright, add a bit more, but not too much at once.

 

Building up blendings with mixing paints works that way that you have got 5 until 9, depending on the size of the detail (in the case of Non Metallic Metal often even 10 or 11 degrees) of brightness. Each mix should be similar in tone and only slightly different in brightness/darkness from the one before and the one after. This makes it in fact very easy to build up a rough, but deep transition. After this you can soften it with more diluted paints.

 

Mixing paints in the right way works way faster than tedious Layering.

 

As a general rule:

The more difference between the tones, the more dilution is necessary for getting a smooth transition. If the difference is very huge you need to dilute the paints to a consistency like almost slightly coloured water.

The fewer the difference between the tones (good job at the mixing), the thicker you can apply the paints. With "thicker" I mean semitransparent, a consistency like milk for example.

 

The first way (much difference between the tones) leads to this endless and tedious layering with not much success. Only after hours of hours one can see anything.

 

The second way works damned fast. First it looks all a bit rough, but you have got a basic transition at least with good depth and then you can keep on working with thinner layers over this basic transition for to get it smoother.

 

I can`t tell all at once. I will follow you and so I can check out your future paintjobs and we can deepen this topic bit by bit with time.

 

But you are on a really good way. You just need the right tipps now.

 

Check out my palette, my prepared transition for painting skintones, then you get an idea of what I mean:

 

Bild 17 Hautfarbe Palette.jpg

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Wow, thank you so much for this reply, it's full of useful advice, you won't find everywhere! 

 

Yes I know, I was a bit rush on her skin, I've used just 4 skin tones on Alice, 1 really reddish and the highlight almost white. 

 

Now I need to find some time to correct my mistake and your advice are precious. 

:wub:

Thanks again 

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@Cicciopiu: You`re welcome ::D:I`m a painting grandma and need to give my knowledge away before I`ll die :lol:

Well only 4 tones are not exactly wrong or too few. It depends all on what you wish to achieve. Apart from that the size of the detail also dictates the amount of tones. At very small details I just take 3. I paint the transition only roughly with 3 tones and thicker paints and after that I soften it with glazes and/or layering, depending on what is possible or neccessary.

 

What I described further above is not an "either or" it is both and.

In plain text: First build up a rough transition with thicker paints and with as many tones as you can paint clean on a certain detail (depending on it`s size) then dilute the paints a bit more, try to smooth it out as good as possible, dilute the paints more and so on.

 

The rule is just: First thicker paints and with the next couple of layers thinner, thinner, thinner. You start with a consistency of almost cream, paint shall be opaque but not 100%, rather 70% and after that you dilute your paints more to 60%, 50%, 40% and so on.

 

Paints become more and more transparent und you put layer over layer. In the very end, when the transition is almost 100% smooth you use heavy diluted paints (only coloured water) and you just dip it on the surface of the mini for to eliminate the very final imperfections. If you do it this way, your previous layers painted with the thicker paints will always shine through all following and thinner layers. That is the point in Layering. 

 

That is why you may only work in the direction of more and more transparency. You can use thicker paints again in between for correcting mistakes, for painting something successfully over, or for simply start to build up the blending new again, because you have messed it up for example. There is no right or wrong in miniature painting. This are all just techniques which can be combined with each other and can be used for certain purposes. I`ve learnt each possible technique in the meantime and I simply use them all.

 

There is no right or wrong technique, there is only using the right technique in the wrong situation. You have to learn when you can use best what.

 

For building up a transition: First thicker paints and then thinner, thinner, thinner is a good start.

 

If you use only 4 tones (which is no problem) you can easily buid up a nice transition as long as this tones are not too much different to each other. For example look at my palette and take the first 4 Skintones from bright to dark.

 

This would be already a transition. There is highlight, midtones and shadow, but the transition would be very flat.

 

But it is a transition and you can start with that.

 

The more tones you use and you are able to paint on a certain detail, the more depth. The more contrast between the brightest highlight and the darkest shadow. Non metallic metal needs the maximum of tones, because nmm steel is from black to white and nmm gold is from very darkbrown to white. But that is not your problem for the moment.

 

This sculpt doesn`t look very large. So: Try this 4 tones, but this time try to mix them similar to what you see on my palette. If you think this looks too flat, just add a 5th tone, but this should be really enough for her thin arms haha.

 

In fact your only mistake was that you mixed your colours too different too each other. If it shall be smooth the tones need to be always similar and only slightly darker or brighter as their direct "neighbour". Apart from that they also have to be similar in colour and saturation. That is why I said that you can mix this reddish skintons simply in your basic skintone. Then you have got your desired reddish shadow,  but just a bit brighter and then you have a connection to your midtones and voila.....smooth ::D:

 

One hint in addition: I know it is not easy, but try to paint as clean as you can. This means put the tones parallel to each other in a line which follows the shape of the detail you paint, this is how to handle the thicker paints. When you start working with the more thinner paints cross this lines, you painted with the thicker paints before, in an angle of 90°. In german this is called: "Kreuzstrich". The directly translation would be "cross stroke". This means you are layering in the shape of a cross. This helps a lot to smooth all out better. But enough talking for today. I`m looking forward to your corrections and then we will see...::D:

 

Oh and keep your painting hand still. Without this is all what I have told here completely useless. Use tape which is sticky from both sides and put this on an empty film container/can. This plastic container which were used for films for photography in earlier days. For the case that you have got something like that. Or take a big corc, pin the mini at it`s feet and push it into the corc. The shape of the film/container and/or big corc lies perfect in your hand. You can hold the mini tight, safe, stable and comfortable. Then try to put your arms on the table, this gives even more stability and if possible put one or two fingers of the hand which holds the brush on the film container/corc for final stability.

 

It is much work to achieve smooth blendings with good depth, you have to work many, many hours for getting a blending really smooth and you should not expect instant success. This needs (despite good tipps) a lot of practise and time, but if I look at your paintjobs here, I`m very optimistic ::D:

 

If something is not clear, please feel free to ask.

 

 

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PS: I checked out some other paintjobs by you in the meantime and this looks all very good!!! The nmm steel you have tried at the Barbarian is flawless and already has got much depth. Really, really good job. I see that you are knowing already what I`m talking about here. You already use a lot of tones. Fine, then we can skip this and can start to talk about how to get blendings smoother.

 

In short: What you have done at the sword and the axe of the Barbarian ist 100% right. My own paintjobs look exactly same way in the beginning, respectively wip phase. There is no difference between the look of my wip miniatures and your nmm steel. What I do different to you is: I do not stop at this stage. I thin my paints more and smooth it all out. Don`t know if you are willing to spend more time with your paintjobs, but this would be the next level for you if this is your aim.

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Thank you for your kindness and all this advice, I'll try my best to get better in the future, this class is motivating me for sure!
Everything you wrote is perfectly understandable I will try to follow your direction, maybe will be better to open WIP 3Ds in the future to get some confrontation and advice from experienced painters like you.

Thank you again ^_^

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@cicciopiu: Yep that`s anyway the best way to improve. The first years of painting miniatures I always posted my wips for getting help by others. Can be sometimes hard, because the audience can be so demanding haha. I`ve heard all the time: "More contrast Yvonne more contrast". And I had no idea what they mean, because I went already as far as possible. First later when I was able to paint more contrast in my transitions I started to understand what they meant. It really helped to get pushed by others. Because of their constantly "complaining" I tried at least to reach more contrast and it worked finaly. Nowadays they don`t ask for more contrast, now they call me mad, because I paint over 50 hours on a miniature. You can`t make it right. :lol:

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