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Summoning A Dragon bust

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Looks good.  Might could use another layer or two of wash or just shading to hide some of the brush marks--or really just the fingerprint.  More importantly, are you painting her on a dog!?

Edited by BLZeebub
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27 minutes ago, BLZeebub said:

Looks good.  Might could use another layer or two of wash or just shading to hide some of the brush marks--or really just the fingerprint.  More importantly, are you painting her on a dog!?

Lol the dog was next to me and made a way better backdrop than anything else within reach ::D:

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I smoothed out the midtones a bit, and took gloss sealer to some mold lines I spotted in the photos, as well as the print lines on on her stomach

 

IMG_20190513_234230553-800x800.thumb.jpg.336b70223d6181af3e3234b5b45874a2.jpg

IMG_20190513_234237852-800x800.thumb.jpg.e7d024d1e89c83986a14ef5330a35ef1.jpg

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Looks pretty good until now, just one hint: You said it is your first osl so I jump in here already now with tipps, because there are most common ways of painting an osl.

 

1. Paint all highlighting as you normally would do on the mini and while you are doing this keep in mind from where all the light comes. This means: Paint not only zenithal (from above) highlighting, but also all brighter where later the light of the fire will be painted.

After this is done you can apply the fire colours. Mix the fire colours carefully (!!!) to the highlighting colour of your basecoat and layer it thin above the highlights you have painted before. Use diluted paints, because you wish the transition you already painted shine through. And use mixed paints. Don`t use orange, yellow, red (fire) colours pure. And if you do (it`s often necessary just for increasing the saturation a bit) then thin them a lot. 

 

2. Mix all colours in advance and apply the osl directly up from now.

 

For example: Mix in some orange to the higlighting colour of your face and mix in some darker orange or red to the shadows colours of your skin and apply it directly now. The flames are in front of her face, this means in the face is the brightest spot of this osl here.

 

Important: You have got 2 transitions here.

1. The transition for the light of the fire which is brightest yellow so paint the very top of the highlights in the face with yellow mixed in your brightest skintone. Yellow becomes orange a bit farer away and orange becomes red the farest away and in the shadows. This means the fire transition ist: Yellow, orange, red.

 

2. The transition of normal white daylight. This is just highlighting the basecolour with a lighter version of it and darken it with a darker version. This means: Light green, medium green, darkgreen.

 

At some points of the sculpt both transitions will meet and this is the most hardest part in painting an osl mixed with daylight. I did it here:

http://vhaidra-fantasy-miniaturen.de/minis/assassin/miniatures/feuermagierin-assassin.jpg

 

An alternative would be: Just paint the osl. Paint it very bright coming from the front of her and paint all other parts of the bust according to this light except the backside, there you could paint a blueish pale moonlight for example. If you make the final photos of your paintjob then take a black background for the photos and the bust will look like by night.

 

However you decide I will try to support you by doing this, because I love osl. Will be great fun for me too. ::D:

 

Best is you simply start and I edit your photo then if necessary.

 

 

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On 5/16/2019 at 7:08 AM, vhaidra said:

Looks pretty good until now, just one hint: You said it is your first osl so I jump in here already now with tipps

 

 

Thank you for your advice! I'll admit, the OSL aspect has me intimidated. I'm envisioning some pretty stark contrast between her back and the front, as though she is in the dark. I've also been debating what color I should make the fire. Part of me likes the idea of the traditional orange, but I'm also considering something in purple or blue. 

 

I decided to map out her facial features before highlighting and shadowing her face. The sculpt has a slight ridge from her mouth to her neck on both sides. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but it gave me the idea to give her some face paint. 

 

IMG_20190520_001805991-800x800.thumb.jpg.d9f60b2a7d8c25a4c491970b490198e4.jpg

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IMG_20190520_001839217-800x800.thumb.jpg.71624ce4a2f1d2f4c8abee8d6c48fefe.jpg

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Phew. Now that you have painted this freehand in her face you have complicated things a lot, because osl is painting light.It is the same like pretty normal highlighting but with using a different colour for the light than the white as we use for normal daylight. So first you have to paint the light (highlighting), then you maybe can add freehands. But the best is: Either osl OR freehand. To combine both is something even experianced painter don`t dare. You are even not experianced in painting osl and so I have to tell you that you wanted too much here.

 

So: No I have no idea how you should paint now the light from the flames onto the face because there is no way to blend the osl colours with the skin colours because blending is impossible up from now because you have got painted the freehand already.

 

Consider first what you wish to do: Do you wish a freehand at the face or an osl at the face. I don`t say: Both is not possible. But the right order is important and that is: First painting the osl and after this is completely finished you can add a freehand. It is not possible to paint the freehand first and painting the osl after you painted the freehand because you have to do a lot of layering at the face for to built up the light from the flames there. This is not possible anymore.

 

Either remove the freehand (I don`t recommend this) or give up the idea of an osl here (that is what I recommend).

 

This is anyway a complicated light situation here for a very first osl. Now that you have got painted the freehand let it as it is (looks good by the way, the freehand) and do normal highlighting here. Select another sculpt for your first osl which is not that complicated that you have to paint the osl in the face of the figure. Take a wizard with a flame in his hand for example, this is easier.

 

You did a lot wrong already in the beginning here. For example you painted a dark green shadow at the inside of the hood and in fact there is light!!! Because the light (the osl) is coming directly from the front of her face and so there it can`t be dark. I have no offtime at the moment and I can`t deepen this now. But my suggestion would be paint this bust as best as you can for the moment, do normal highlighting. Ignore the osl here. Look for a sculpt with a more easy osl situation, try it later again and summoning me or better write a pm to me right the moment when you start it, because you have to consider a lot in the beginning when you plan to paint an osl and best is you get a little bit guidance then.

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PS:

I have got a couple of minutes offtime left today and I will give them to you respectively to your osl "problem"

I just speak in general here about osl (not related to your actual paintjob):

 

First and most important rule of painting light (osl is painting light) is:

- The light colour mixes with the basecolour of the detail which is reflecting the light. -

 

This means: (In case of normal highlighting) Normal daylight (white) is mixed with the basecolour of the clothes of the figure. Very easy. No problem will appear, because white is completely neutral.

 

In the case of osl things become way more complicated, because of the rules of colour theory:

 

For example: Complementary contrasts negate each other.

(this is why they can be used for shading for example)

If you mix green with red the result will be dirty brown.

If you mix blue with orange the result will be a dark brown.

If you mix purple with yellow the result will be a greyish dark brown.

 

Apart from this other very strange things can happen when it comes to mixing paints.

Mix magenta with yellow and the result is actually red.

Mix yellow with blue and the result is green.

Mix red with blue and the result is dark purple. And so on....

 

Conclusion: You need to know simply all about colour theory and mixing paints before you even can decide which is the best base colour for you figure according the colour of the osl. Or which is the best osl colour according to your base colour. It is not possible to simply decide: "Ah I paint the osl green, purple, red, blue whatever". You have to keep yourself to the rules of colour theory in making your decisions.

 

Both the colour of the osl and the base colour of the miniature needs to match with each other. Otherwise a catastrophe is the result. You wish to paint light and get a muddy brown instead or worse.

 

As for a very first osl my recommendations are:

- Select a more easy sculpt for a first trial. The light situation shouldn`t be too much complicated.

- Consider how to prime (white, grey, black?)

- Consider well the basecolours and the osl colour according the rules of colour theory.

- Consider well where are the lightest/darkest parts according light/highlighting theory.

- Then first make your very first brushstroke on the miniature.

 

That is exactly why I offered my guidance in this case, it is way more complicated than you might think at the moment. I would love to accompany you in this issue, but it is necessary that we talk about the whole paintjob before you make any single brushstroke at it. So best is a completely new start with another sculpt.

 

It starts already with the selection of the sculpt and as the basecolour I would recommend black. Why? Because it is neutral. No broccoli happens, no matter what osl colour you choose and apart from this osl on black anyway looks best.

 

You don`t need to fear osl. It is just painting light. Not different from what you are usually doing when highlighting a miniature. But there are rules and you need to know them. That`s all.

 

Concerning your actual figure here: Keep it simple. It looks great as it is at the moment. You did a very good job at the face and the freehand already. Just paint it in a normal way. Paint normal zenithal highlighting, paint the flames as you wish and try to create just a very small osl only at the detail where the flames are.

 

You can paint a huge osl which covers the whole figure or you can paint a small osl which only covers the areas right beside your lightsource. Because there is no way to paint a huge osl (because of the freehand in the face you painted already) just change your plans and paint a very small osl only at the detail where the flames are. This will work too. Doesn`t look as impressive as a huge osl would do but....hey who cares. You have to make the best out of the situation now.

 

Hope this helps.

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Ok. Well I'm going to disagree with a lot of what was previously said. 

Most importantly, please note that you have NOT ruined your bust, it's not beyond hope by any means. It's just paint, it's not the end of the world if you didn't use the exact formula that someone else has found works for them. The answer is never not to try. The reason that experienced painters are experienced is because they have experienced things for themselves and found what does and does not work for them. Getting advice is great, tutorials are great, but at the end of the day, you need to put the paint on the model and experience things for yourself to get the experience, just like with anything else. Furthermore, there is no rulebook when it comes to painting. There is what works for some people and what doesn't work for some people. There are, indeed, "rules" regarding colour theory, composition and certain techniques, but these are still just guidelines and generally just based on personal experience, opinions and preferences. Do what works for you. You do not need to learn all about anything before attempting anything. If you're concerned about how one paint will look on top of another, then test it before you put it on the model. If you're interested in colour theory, it is definitely a great tool to have in your kit, especially as you progress in your own personal painting journey, but there is no theory or technique that you must master before you put paint on something. If what you're interested in is making sure that your bust adheres to colour theory, cool, refer to it and let that guide your choices. But there's nothing wrong with making a choice based on intuition or just something that you think will look cool. This is your hobby, your bust, your paintjob.

 

Now, it seems to me that you never intended on a really drastic lighting situation like James Wappel's version of this bust since you selected different colours for her hair and eyes and lips. It's not a problem to not do something so dramatic as more subtle osl can look just as beautiful and convincing. So in this case you're going to have two different light sources. A neutral and somewhat ambient light source coming from above (I would position that coming from above and directly in front of her) and then the osl coming from the dragon fire (or dragon spell fire, idk, whatever you want to call it) so all you need to do is just stay consistent with that. The dragon spell fire is going to emit a ball of light and you just need to decide where that ends. I would do the back of her in darker colours, but not just completely blacked out since you have the upper light source that's going to throw a bit of ambient light.

 

I like the freehand detail that you've put on her face and, in my opinion, that is not going to complicate things any more than having red lips, red hair and a green cloak complicates things. If you were to do a very complicated and intricate freehand pattern that required a lot of really close detail work in the first place, then yeah, that'd be a little bit of a nightmare to take the plunge to do osl on top of that and get it to look right. That doesn't mean it's not possible, it's just a lot more work and with experience, you tend to learn what battles you want to fight and what you don't. 

 

Realistically, you're probably looking at some trial and error here. There's nothing wrong with that. That's how we learn and, in my opinion, that's half the fun of painting is figuring that kind of stuff out. So what I would probably do here is just dive in with a glaze. Now I'm very comfortable with glazes because I've had a lot of experience with them. You might not be so that might be a frustrating path for you. Whatever colour you pick might not play well with the colours you've already put down. You might put down too strong of a glaze and have to scale things back. These things are all fine, they're all learning experiences. If you're a little less stubborn than I am, then you might consider getting a sacrificial Bones model to practice the same colours on to do some quick tests or if you have some thick paper like watercolour paper you can try that as well. Sometimes I test colours out right on the back of my hand just as a quick way to see if they're going to play nicely together.

 

I did a very quick and super crude mockup of how I would approach the osl based on what you've already painted. Hopefully this gets the point across as I'm honestly not sure just how crude this is going to be as I'm on my 4th day of a migraine and have my monitor brightness literally set to 0%, so hopefully this is useful in some way.

oslpurple.jpg.a0edfb8e6115e47ae412e05c5c61d602.jpg

 

I chose purple because I thought it would work the best with your existing colour scheme and incidentally, colour theory would back me up there, but you can obviously choose whatever colour looks good to you and works with the vision that you have in your head.If you go in the purple direction, it's going to depend on the individual paints you use as to what approach (ie. glazing or mixing paints to layer) will work best for you, especially with the green as that has the potential to become a bit murky. I would either use the suggestions I made above and test things out on a Bones figure or paper or test things out directly on her stomach where most of the surface area is going to be hidden by the dragon spell fire itself anyway, in case of any mishaps.

 

The areas closest to the lightsource itself are going to be the most intensely and brightly coloured and the further away from the source you get, the lighter the intensity should be. I think that on the face you can likely (but not 100% certain) achieve this with a really light/thin glaze that just barely tints things one brush stroke at a time. Take it easy and slow and start in the area that's going to get the most intense colour (ie. under the chin) so that if it's too intense to start, you can scale it back. Flipping the figure upside down will help you to map out what areas would receive the most intense concentration of light, as well as more reflective surfaces - like the eyes will reflect that light really intensely even though the eyes are further away than the nose because skin is not as reflective as eyes. I would reflect it more intensely on the hair than I did in the above example as well, as hair is also a very reflective surface.

 

As you can hopefully see though, we can still capture a perfectly fine osl look despite the freehand on the face, you just need to find the right balance. As long as you're not going too intense, you don't have to disrupt the freehand very much and a light glaze over it and the skin should work out just fine. The good news is, as the person painting it, you are in complete control of how intense the light is - the important part is to remain consistent.

 

Also important to note, the placement of the intense light will probably vary from my example because of the actual placement of the dragon spell fire. I think I probably placed it a little too low on her chest. The way that you paint the dragon will also obviously affect the intensity of the light. I didn't do a mock up of that, but I wouldn't paint the entire little dragon as the lightsource like James Wappel did, I would paint only the fire part as the lightsource. The lightsource itself will have the most intense colours and also go much brighter than any reflection you put on the lady but since you're going for less of an intense glow, you don't want to use too much white so that we can temper the eye's expectation of how bright the light is meant to be.

 

Play around with it, most importantly have fun with it and don't give up. You're doing just fine.

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4 hours ago, Guindyloo said:

Most importantly, please note that you have NOT ruined your bust, it's not beyond hope by any means. It's just paint, it's not the end of the world if you didn't use the exact formula that someone else has found works for them. The answer is never not to try. The reason that experienced painters are experienced is because they have experienced things for themselves and found what does and does not work for them. Getting advice is great, tutorials are great, but at the end of the day, you need to put the paint on the model and experience things for yourself to get the experience, just like with anything else. Furthermore, there is no rulebook when it comes to painting. There is what works for some people and what doesn't work for some people. There are, indeed, "rules" regarding colour theory, composition and certain techniques, but these are still just guidelines and generally just based on personal experience, opinions and preferences. Do what works for you. You do not need to learn all about anything before attempting anything.

 

Thank you for this. I spent a lot of yesterday thinking about it and I think you put my thoughts into words better than I could. Being overambitious is definitely a thing I do a lot, but it helps me to learn, and I'm very excited about this bust right now :) 

 

I do appreciate all the technical advice I receive here on the forums, and it's been a huge part of what has allowed me to level up as much as I have, but just getting in there and doing whatever it is that's intimidating me is just as much a part of my growth as a painter as the advice I've been given. 

 

Anyway, last night I started roughly mapping in my highlights on the cloak. I kept it to green tones for now, just so I can see my light and tweak it before I start glazing the OSL color in there. I'm leaning toward purple as purple/green is one of my favorite color combinations. 

 

IMG_20190521_172458397-800x800.thumb.jpg.1873f2330161676f6a80b28aa40099c7.jpg

 

It's pretty messy right now. The edges need more blending, and I think I need to bring a few areas lighter and a few areas darker again, but I'm starting to see where she's going.

 

I've also started getting paint onto the hands and the flames. Nothing fancy yet, but it will allow me to see my flame colors before I start working on the reflected light.

 

IMG_20190521_174453513-800x800.thumb.jpg.53f8725be9bb02b49527fdfff4ac205c.jpg

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I just offered my help and my advice and I never said that the bust is ruined. In fact I said quite the opposite. I just said that I don`t recommend to paint an osl over a freehand. I have no problem in seeing you are doing it despite my advice. It`s your choice. I offer my help in a passive way. You can take it or leave it. It is up to you.

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@Fire_Eyes :

I have got a bit time at the moment (the next calm nightshift yehaaa) for typing a couple of more words for to clear some misunderstandings which might happened here.


Of course you still can paint an osl over or beside the freehand in the face. It is just a very, very hard task. That is why I didn`t recommend it. If I say: I don`t recommend it, it normally means: It doesn`t work at all or it works, but it is a very, very hard task making it work.


But if you stick to your wish to paint a larger osl which also covers the face there are 2 ways in doing this.
1. Painting the osl with a bit thicker paints by avoiding to touch the freehand but this is....horrible. If the light is built up in the face you can glaze the freehand over with only transparent paints for making it fit to the rest of the light situation in her face. But as said: This is really the hard way. You will get mad by doing this.


2. Painting the osl with thinner paints. Only a lot of transparent layers, but this way you actually can paint the freehand over and it still shines through. I would try it this way. The freehand will also get lightened up by the fire colour and so it is okay to paint it over with fire colours, but just in a transparent way. Maybe you have to redo the freehand from time to time again for the case that it becomes too blurry, because of all this layers of the osl colour.  But this is much work.

 

This is why I said: I don`t recommend it, because of course it works if you desperately still wish to paint the osl, but it will be a very hard task and a lot more work than it has been without the freehand. If you are willing to do this hard task: Just go for it.


In doubt just ask me! If I post my long texts about painting technique I expect to talk about all this with others. So if you don`t like something I say or if you think this is not the whole information or if you consider if there is another way too....simply ask.

 

In this case here it would have been enough to say: "Hey Yvonne thanks, but I still wish to paint the osl have you got any idea how it nevertheless could work?" And then I would have written what I wrote now.


This is a forum, it is for communication, for discussion and so all I say is just a basis for a discussion. I don`t expect that someone is following my advice in a blind and stupid way. I expect that he/she says: "Hm and what  if I`m doing it this or that way?" Then we can talk about.


Concerning the osl colour you have selected (purple) and concerning the way Guindyloo recommended to do it (glazing it over) I also would have an advice, but I keep it until you ask me directly for the case that you really wish to make some colourful experiments and learning it the hard way.


Of course one learns well by experiance, that is exactly the way I have learnt it. When I started to learn all this, no one was there who said: I can help you. Almost no tutorials existed, there haven`t been all this amazing videos on You Tube. I had to learn it the hard way and it was often very, very frusterating and on top very time consuming and I developed just very slow. That is why I decided: For the case I really can ever learn this broccoli I swear I will share my knowledge and helping others with it.


But of course I accept it if someone says: No thanks I wish it to be the hard way. No problem. Some even learn best if they try all by themselve. We are all different. Some like it comfortably others rely only on themselve.


So: Concerning the glazes of purple over the yellowgreen you have already painted I have got something to say if you wish to hear it, but I wait for your answer first and then you can tell me if you wish to hear it or if you rather would like to do an experiment by yourself.


Apart from that: The highlighting of the green robe in front looks already very well.


Cheers,
Yvonne

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