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Tasso

First Legion Fantasy Line

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Looks like they listened to concerns its odd that high add-on only pledges might feel not worth it if they're exempt from getting stretch goals. So now it's freebies with any pledge of $300+ now, even for people only wanting stuff like the orc camps.

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This KS is really going unnoticed given the quality the sculpts and low prices.     I tend to favor resin figures and other more highly detailed figures, but I joined here for totally self serving purposes, I want more stretch goal figures!    If you haven't already, you really should check it out.   THey just posted another new model today (Orc) and its amazing.   And yes,, they did change the stretch goals to include add on only guys, though at higher price points.   For me i'm in for 6 core sets plus some stretches (I like the Ogres, Minataurs, and the dragon on his tail concept art).    I'm not really crazy about purchasing based on concept art only but they've shown so many finished models and all are better than the concepts that i'm breaking my own rule for this one.    

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I'm still debating.  Minotaurs and werewolves are tempting though... 

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On 6/7/2019 at 12:56 AM, Ilovetheminis said:

This KS is really going unnoticed given the quality the sculpts and low prices.  

The main problem is probably the unknown quality of the castings.

 

Generally, fantasy fans won't have much, if any, experience with First Legion, and thus no experience with the materials they use. Even if they did, FL's ability to deliver sound tooling for mass production at this scale remains largely unknown.

 

On the other hand, a lot of fantasy fans have been burned by Kickstarters with supposedly great sculpts at seemingly good prices before,. For example, Raging Heroes delivering what may be the worst tooling in history and a sub-par material for TGG2.

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23 hours ago, SamuraiJack said:

My will power to resist 32mm figures is fading.. ugh..

 

Give in. Succumb. It is... inevitable.

 

Payback man! Payback!

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9 hours ago, Arkady said:

The main problem is probably the unknown quality of the castings.

 

Generally, fantasy fans won't have much, if any, experience with First Legion, and thus no experience with the materials they use. Even if they did, FL's ability to deliver sound tooling for mass production at this scale remains largely unknown.

 

On the other hand, a lot of fantasy fans have been burned by Kickstarters with supposedly great sculpts at seemingly good prices before,. For example, Raging Heroes delivering what may be the worst tooling in history and a sub-par material for TGG2.

 

Hi Arkady, 

 

This is Matt from First Legion.  I noticed some traffic coming from here via the wonders of google analytics, and I thought I'd check it out.    All of your concerns are of course very valid and one of our biggest hurdles is that we are very much an unknown entity to the 28mm fantasy market.  That being said, let me address the specific points you've raised. 

 

This certainly isn't our first rodeo.   We are one of the world's leading providers of fully hand painted figures.   As part of that, we produce many products that are fully resin or mixed media.  The best example are our WWII vehicles.  We've been making these in resin for about 10 years now (well, mixed media - mostly resin, turned aluminum gun barrels, some injection plastic for high use parts such as bogey wheels, photo etch, etc...).   Further, even for our metal figures, all of the tooling for the molds is done using resin masters.   Finally, we've been producing 1/35th scale resin kits for years now as well.    So you shouldn't be concerned with our ability to do production tooling or complete a production using resin.   We've been working with Resin for a long time and use different resins for different purposes.   As I understand the TGG KS that you brought up, they used spin cast resin.   That requires mold release agents and isn't the same quality of the vacuum cast resin that we are using.   I can't speak to Raging heroes, I know nothing about them other than the fact that they had a few tremendously successful KS's.  That's great for them, cool designs and concepts for sure.   I have no idea what they did before that or since.   We have been producing products to extremely satisfied customers for 13 years now.   We've produced and sold literally hundreds of thousands extremely well hand painted figures and related products.   We will continue to do this whether our 28mm Fantasy KS has 0 backers or 5000 backers.  The process for doing this is far more complex than the process for producing resin figure kits.   That's not to say that this is "easy", nothing is ever easy and invariably what can go wrong will on some level.   But it is to say that we have the MFR'ing and distribution experience and have created a brand that is synonymous with quality over the years.    We aren't about to risk the goodwill we've worked so hard to establish by producing sub par products for the first time in our history for an amount of money that is relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things.   I'd rather refund everyone than ship something I'm not happy with.      

 

Our goal with our KS is to offer superlative sculpts at great prices in order to get our products out to as many folks as possible in a new market space for us.   We are confident that our KS backers will be happy with what they receive.   It is through this process that we will build our brand and reputation in this market such that when we expand the series or do correlated series' in 28mm, the market will have had a good experience and won't have the concerns that you've raised.    If we can achieve that with this KS than it will have been a success.   Sure, of course we wouldn't complain if it was wildly successful, but the reality is that we aren't dependent on it as a company.    Every company has a philosophy under which they operate.    Ours has always been to produce best of breed products and offer them at reasonable prices relative to that quality.    It has served us well over the years with our 60mm core business and we will apply this same model to our 28mm products.   Are we perfect?  Heck no, like everyone we make mistakes, but we've gotten it right far more often than we've gotten it wrong over the years and when we have gotten it wrong we go out our way to make it right. ::D:

 

One last point back to the castings.   If you look at the reviews that have been done about the figures, the one consistent theme is that anyone who has seen them in the hand raves about the quality of the castings and the quality of the sculptures.   Everyone's first thought when they hear stuff like that is "you must have paid them to say that."   The reality is we didn't.   There's no need if the product is good.   We simply turn the figures over and tell reviewers to say whatever you'd like about them.  A business can't be built on paying people to say good things about bad products because in the end, the products are still bad.   ::D:

 

Anyway, didn't mean to go on this long.  Just thought I'd share some thoughts.

 

Best,


Matt

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I dropped down to an add on level.. considering a dragon or two, I like some individual figures but not the idea of getting an entire set for one mini..  Also another KS is hitting my funds pretty hard right now

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Definitely appreciate the extra clarity on the company’s history. The project is more ambitious than average, and I think a lot of folks get a bit leery about that since there’s a pretty regular history of ambitious mini projects running into trouble. That said, it seems that often comes from throwing so many stretch goals and additional products into the mix mid-KS that project scale creep or post-KS economics make the project impossible. 

 

I like free extras as much as anyone else, but (paradoxically) the treatment of stretch goals here is also a source of reassurance. The milestones have held firm. Many creators hit the panic button and drop milestones to try to generate more momentum (and get themselves in trouble in terms of margins). That this hasn’t happened suggests a company that knows its economics and is sticking with them. Not that I’m not hoping for a bit of a late surge of course (what is it that has the scythe?)...

 

So I’m in for a few sets, which is a pretty big investment in the unknown (although below my annual Reaper budget). 

 

I would also point out that topping 100k is actually pretty good for a minis-only project with no game attached (at least in recent years). So not something to be disheartened by. As you say, the right way to build a business is to get quality products out there and let them speak for

themselves. And delivering on one ambitious KS range will be pretty huge when people consider whether to invest in the next one. 

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I'll be honest, I was pointedly staying away from this project.  But after reading the comments from the creator, I'm tempted to back for something.  Still might not because there is the possibility that I'm going to have to sell my house, but I am thinking about it now.

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Popping back in for a check-in.   Tasso, thanks so much for your support and Dan, I'm glad that my comments have at least piqued your interest in who we are and what we do, irrespective of whether you back or not.    I don't want to sound over confident, it's not the intent.  But most of you have no idea who we are....all i can say, is that we are the real deal.   We've been doing this type of thing for a long time.    We have a history of creating best of breed products and we will do our best to achieve the same in the 28mm figure space as well.       

 

Tasso, it's interesting that you think our KS is so ambitious.  Really, we've heard this a lot and for me, i'm not sure I fully get it.   That's probably because I don't follow many Kickstarters.   Sure, in setting ours up, we viewed a bunch of them, checked out the different strategies they used, etc.....  But most of those were very ambitious as well.   But to us, doing 170 or however many 28mm figure kits isn't overly ambitious.     In 12 years we've released over 3000 fully painted 60mm figures, each of which had to be sculpted and cast before it was ever even painted.   That's an average of 250 per year and those are fully hand painted to a really high level.   So to us, 170 or wotnot 28mm figures is not a massive number particularly considering we have set ourselves 9 months or so to get them done and the modeling is well underway.  Rather, it's enough to reach a critical mass to have a range be broad enough to have some interest to it.    We have always been able to sculpt figures far faster than we can do a fully painted production of them.  So not having to paint them (though we might with some!) is very liberating to some extent because once the model is finished, we can go directly to production.  With our 60mm painted ranges, we finish a sculpt and it can often be 1-3 years before we produce it.   Such is the backlog of production.....painting them takes far more time than sculpting them, at least for us it does.

 

Anyhoo, I actually think this post might make an interesting update for our KS.   3 am here, need to sleep on that first.  ;-)

 

Really, I don't want to pressure anyone to back or not back.  It's not how we roll.   If you guys see and like the stuff, you should back it.   If you don't like it, you shouldn't.   I am only here to tell you that you'll get what you paid for if you do.  

 

Night guys.


Matt

 

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