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Pre-Launch Bones 5 Excitement thread

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On 8/17/2019 at 2:06 PM, WhiteWulfe said:

No idea what you're talking about.  I was going to be civil, and gentle, and oh gawds the total will be like $700 USD for BattleTech....

 

I am soo glad it was just clan invasion timeline and had quite a few of the standard clan omni's.  If it had been Civil War era or heaven forbid Jihad and after I would be in hiding from my Irate Wife for maxing out the credit cards, after all I have had 30 years to get metal minis for the original clan invasion.  New stuff?  Not so much..

 

Sooo I may get some bones stuff.  But probably just actual model stuff, the only renders I really liked were the Dragon Turtle, and the Demon Lords from Bones IV.

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1 hour ago, Cyradis said:

Reaper does have some stiffer material though; the Obsidian Crypt and the Graveyard Fences are stiff plastics.

 

It's all PVC, but with varying amounts of plasticizer. The problem (as I understand it, and I don't work for Reaper) is mostly in ejecting pieces after molding them. The more flexible the piece, the less Reaper has to worry about undercuts, which means that they can use two-part molds in almost every case (possibly every case). Bones Black, being much more rigid (and more fragile) can't have those same undercuts, so more often has to be cast in multi-part molds, or in multiple pieces, or both.

 

Reading between the lines of what they've said, those figures are cast in a different factory, and presumably on different molding machines. Which is also why they can't just start casting all the small figures in Bones Black, since it would require new molds, which would be a multi-million dollar investment without significant increases in sales to pay for it.

 

And since multi-part molds are significantly more expensive to make and the machines required to use multi-part molds are more complex (and thus more expensive to buy and run), Reaper would really prefer to use them for as few pieces as possible. So if it can be reasonably cast in original Bones, it likely will be.

 

And there's also the fact that figures with more plasticizer are virtually impossible to break, so they can be very convenient to carry around and beat the heck out of in games. And while getting a good first paint coat on original Bones can be annoying, once you do get it, it's very durable indeed, much more so than on harder plastic or metal figures.

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I am aware that it is all PVC with varied plasticizer at this point; just noting that some versions are much stiffer than others. It does make sense that the molds for one mix can't use a different mix, certainly. The Obsidian Crypt and the Graveyard Fences also have extremely minimal undercuts, if any. I don't think they'd need more than two pieces per mold for each component of them due to the flatness. Not all sculpts are like this, but it is a great option for ones that are.

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7 hours ago, Cyradis said:

Bones Black has potential to droop too, as seen with Baba Yaga's hut and the legs.

 

Reaper does have some stiffer material though; the Obsidian Crypt and the Graveyard Fences are stiff plastics.

Don't forget Wyrmgear's wings in that list!  Those are stiff! 

Edited by WhiteWulfe
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3 hours ago, WhiteWulfe said:

Don't forget Wyrmgear's wings in that list!  Those are stiff! 

 

I don't have a Wyrmgear, but he does look like he has a similar set-up to the crypt. Lots of flat pieces.

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I do hope that any large models that are made of the new material will be sent UNASSEMBLED. I'd be much happier doing my own gluing than grumbling because child-labour has been used to put the thing together badly.

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11 minutes ago, paintybeard said:

I do hope that any large models that are made of the new material will be sent UNASSEMBLED. I'd be much happier doing my own gluing than grumbling because child-labour has been used to put the thing together badly.

I definitely agree.  Putting it together myself also means I can modify the pose if I so choose. 

 

Additionally, if it's going to be advertised over and over about being unassembled - it should arrive that way.  If it's advertised as a certain height, same thing. 

Edited by WhiteWulfe
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I don't mind that Argent turned out shorter than planned, but they should have let people know. It is part of a Kickstarter that stuff may not turn out as initially intended. Just letting people know "hey, we tried to make this work, it didn't, so we went with next best option" would go a long way. 

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The thing that bothered me about Argent are those elfing heavy wings.

I put him on evilbay hoping to sell him.

 

I love the Zombie Dragon though!

 

Hope Bones V will have some medium sized monsters like that one!

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I hope in the future when they make big minis like that.  They stick to the tried and true method of making a green sculpt instead of this digital bs.  It seems every time they make a digital one it gets screwed up somehow.

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I don't think that digital is what gave Argent trouble. Just scale. If he was bigger, he'd droop even more! I don't know how feasible it would be to make his wings thinner. They'd have less weight, but also less structure to work with. And dragon wings can't be fluffy, so it would be tough to make them hollow in multiple parts, yeah?

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Y'know, I wonder if maybe Reaper could offer - as an add-on maybe - a kit full of various lengths of brass rod and a long drill bit?  Have instructions ("Drill here") online to avoid printing costs.  Then folks with droopy Bones could undroopify them easily?  Just a thought.  

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37 minutes ago, Cyradis said:

I don't think that digital is what gave Argent trouble. Just scale. If he was bigger, he'd droop even more! I don't know how feasible it would be to make his wings thinner. They'd have less weight, but also less structure to work with. And dragon wings can't be fluffy, so it would be tough to make them hollow in multiple parts, yeah?

The thing is though its been consistent with digital sculpts.  If I recall Kaladrax was the same way.  (I dont know if Turakzul or whatever was digital)
Even smaller digital sculpts have some serious errors.  (many of the villagers from bones 4 for example)

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56 minutes ago, Cyradis said:

I don't think that digital is what gave Argent trouble. Just scale. If he was bigger, he'd droop even more! I don't know how feasible it would be to make his wings thinner. They'd have less weight, but also less structure to work with. And dragon wings can't be fluffy, so it would be tough to make them hollow in multiple parts, yeah?

The thing is, the wings are way too thick. Physically sculpted dragons, including Ma'al Drakar, have much thinner wings, overall. Argent's are extremely thick, which contributes to their weight and droopiness. It would've been much better to make them from a lighter weight material, but they definitely should have been thinner, too. I suspect a large part of the overly thick wings is due to digital rendering, since it becomes less obvious that the thickness is just really way too egregious in renders on the screen.

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9 hours ago, Bane Of Humanity said:

I hope in the future when they make big minis like that.  They stick to the tried and true method of making a green sculpt instead of this digital bs.  It seems every time they make a digital one it gets screwed up somehow.

but thats their process. not the fact that its digital.  other companies do digital, but their processes and model materials are made for their end goals. 

7 hours ago, Disciple of Sakura said:

The thing is, the wings are way too thick. Physically sculpted dragons, including Ma'al Drakar, have much thinner wings, overall. Argent's are extremely thick, which contributes to their weight and droopiness. It would've been much better to make them from a lighter weight material, but they definitely should have been thinner, too. I suspect a large part of the overly thick wings is due to digital rendering, since it becomes less obvious that the thickness is just really way too egregious in renders on the screen.

and that can be managed in a digital file. That issue appears most likely likely due to inexperience in the artists they hired?  GW especially is the gold standard here, but GF9 also does digital but up to now their models are resin (their newer stuff - some is resin, some is some type of new pvc plastic, and their biggest kits are going to be like GW hard plastic sets with tons of parts).      Mierce also does digital sculpts and resin master prints. 

 

From dealing with software development; project management processes, etc.  the software that outputs to the 3d printers, id imagine would show the thicknesses, etc so that it something a review of the files would have shown and they could then have it modified if the thought it was an issue.  Just like any process.  SOmething comes up -  you find ways to deal with it.  For reaper, they chose to just shrink it instead of having wings redesigned before making molds, etc and then i guess realized the issue with their size and thickness and the cost that would be.

 

8 hours ago, Cyradis said:

I don't think that digital is what gave Argent trouble. Just scale. If he was bigger, he'd droop even more! I don't know how feasible it would be to make his wings thinner. They'd have less weight, but also less structure to work with. And dragon wings can't be fluffy, so it would be tough to make them hollow in multiple parts, yeah?

its quite possible - either by hand sculpts OR digital. 

 

Digital example: GF9 red dragon - its wings are crazy thin AND in multiple parts resin so the membrane sections are separate and slide into the bone/fingers and need to be glued.  they look great since they are thin, etc but OMG they are also quite a bit of work to get them all set properly.  for folks who have trouble assembling bones stuff, yeah avoid that. 

 

hand sculpted: CMON Cang - thinnest wings i've seen on any model. maybe thinnest part of any model overall.  the wings are CRAZY. if anyone wants pics, i can send.

 

NOTE: if anyone wants to do surgery on their heavy wing models and insert rods, etc but isnt certain what to do (since they've never done large modifications like that before), in 3 weeks once im done with a contest entry for sept 7, i dont mind taking drills and blades to my roc, argent and see what i can do as an example and maybe give photos or record it for ppl )

 

Regards,

 

Sanjay

Edited by StarFyre
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