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Knight of the Dinner Table

CMON Trudvang

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It is sort of "funny" reading that this KS is not going so well. When it came out I was looking at the minis first and I was all "oooooh" and then I've read CMON...
ah! *close the wallet*; no matter how good a game is or how good the minis looks, simply I hate everything from them cause of THEM!

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1 hour ago, Knight of the Dinner Table said:

 

That's true, but before they were more present, even enthusiastic, in the comment section - at least while the project was funding.

 

Currently it's less funding than defunding.

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They've just escalated their efforts, including with an automatic stretch goal release every day regardless of whether a target is reached. May go back in... 

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I'm well beyond the days of pledging for a game simply to get the minis, so I'll pass.  Didn't I say that slow funding could end up being a good thing for backers though?

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On 7/31/2019 at 9:28 AM, Dan d'Lyon said:

I watched the gameplay overview last night.  Drawing chits out of a bag to simulate combat?  Not really any sense of excitement there for me.

 

 

This is a strange one for me.

- On one hand, I can see how drawing chits from a bag is a bit like throwing dice or drawing cards.  There's a set number of possible results.  The symbols on the chits will trigger effects just like the side of dice- but the dice bag is a lot more customizable than dice, and a lot easier to re-set than shuffling a deck of cards.

Logically, I feel like this should be a fine way to generate some random results that you can work from.


- But, on the other hand, drawing tokens just isn't exciting.  I mean, there's a certain amount of fun that is inherent in rolling a die- even if you don't have anything riding on it.  Dice are just kind of fun.

There's less inherent excitement in drawing cards for RNG- and I feel like drawing chits from a bag is a step down from that.  On the other hand, I enjoy drawing dice from a bag for Stuffed Fables...

 

 


- The people who played demos at Gencon seem to have enjoyed it.  The minis generally look good, and there are definitely a lot of them.  They aren't giving away much of the game because of 'spoilers' but Etherfields was only worse at that.

 

Do we have a clear reason as to why they're losing so many backers?  This hasn't happened with previous CMON games, and I really don't see what they're doing wrong.

Edited by odinsgrandson
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To me it looks like they are far, far less present in the comment section - especially as far as answering backers' questions are concerned.

The project also seems to be really unprepared (no game-play video from the start, the "fact" that those ivory miniatures are resin miniatures "painted" in white somewhere hidden in the comment section - I feel they do not look good for resins, just now the promise that a closer look at the "legend system" they are so proud of is in the works, they have ignored the backers' plea for scale comparison pictures etc etc).

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50 minutes ago, odinsgrandson said:

 

Do we have a clear reason as to why they're losing so many backers?  This hasn't happened with previous CMON games, and I really don't see what they're doing wrong.

 

Ankh was announced last weekend.

 

Ivory effect for minis makes them look shallower than they actually are.  Kind of ugly actually.

 

Backers who dropped their EBs aren't going to come back for full price.  So numbers are continuing to drop.  Funding is from add-ons.

 

The big announcement was: we promise you a stretch goal a day for the next week (small promise really).  And if you buy this 45 dollar add-on you might also get some other stretch goals.

 

Possible pledge troll activity isn't encouraging since the total dropped 1100 in the last hour, unfunding the Jordirum stretch goal (at least for a bit -- seems to be going back up as I write.)

 

PS. drawing chits out of bags and reading cards are the two things I like least in board games.  Personal opinion.

Edited by Carnacki the Ghost Finder
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1 hour ago, Carnacki the Ghost Finder said:

 

Ankh was announced last weekend.

 

Ivory effect for minis makes them look shallower than they actually are.  Kind of ugly actually.

 

Backers who dropped their EBs aren't going to come back for full price.  So numbers are continuing to drop.  Funding is from add-ons.

 

The big announcement was: we promise you a stretch goal a day for the next week (small promise really).  And if you buy this 45 dollar add-on you might also get some other stretch goals.

 

Possible pledge troll activity isn't encouraging since the total dropped 1100 in the last hour, unfunding the Jordirum stretch goal (at least for a bit -- seems to be going back up as I write.)

 

PS. drawing chits out of bags and reading cards are the two things I like least in board games.  Personal opinion.



- The dates for Gencon do match up with the start of the decline.  There's definitely a large segment of CMON's core audience that want Ankh. 

But is that actually causing the drop?  I mean, we've watched a LOT of Kickstarters run right through big announcements for competing, sometimes more popular games.  And a lot of projects have overlapped with big conventions and the excitement they bring.  Sometimes they turn into short slowdowns, not with the huge number of dropped pledges.

- So we're saying that the minis look ugly?  If that's the reason, why didn't this game start flailing sooner?

- EB backers are very unlikely to return- so dropping is very committal.  I'd kind of expect backers to stay in until later- but it seems like a lot of them know for sure that they're not interested in this game already.

- The promised stretch goal and more paid add ons were definitely all added after things started going wrong.  It probably isn't enough- but at the same time, I think it is the right thing for CMON to do.  The truth is, it is hard to turn around momentum with gamers.  The negative funding kind of compounds the problem, and 'righting the ship' isn't anywhere near as effective as not having had to right the ship.

- I'm sure there's some pledge troll activity going on, but that happens on most big campaigns, and the funding graph isn't ever affected.  

- Drawing Chits out of Bags and Reading Cards is Boring might actually be the reason- albeit indirectly.  I just compared the Kicktraq funding graph against the date on CMON's gameplay video.

The video went up on the 30th (a slow funding day).  This is followed by negative acceleration (slow funding day, slightly negative day, increasingly negative day, etc).

I think people were unimpressed with the chit drawing mechanic, and no one from CMON was in the comments answering questions and calming concerns.  And when things start dipping, other gamers see it as a bad sign, and jump ship as well.

There were also a lot of non-committed EB backers (who pledged on day 1 for the $10 discount) but whose pledge was still pretty up in the air.  The gameplay video seems to have helped many of these backers decide against Trudvang.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/cmon/trudvang-legends/dailypledges.png


So that's my take on it.

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5 hours ago, odinsgrandson said:

This hasn't happened with previous CMON games, and I really don't see what they're doing wrong.

 

At $1M, I'm not seeing what they're doing wrong, either. $1M is better than several of CMON's other KS, such as Munchkin Dungeons and Rum and Bones. Trudvang is no Zombicide or Bloodborne blockbuster. It's a niche game, for Paul Bonner and Trudvang RPG fans. 

 

Timed EB's look bad on KickTraq, but pretty much all campaigns that had EB's have a similar pattern. CMON lost momentum because they made the mistake of assuming the Day 1 momentum would continue, and made the SG's goals too far apart. The free expansion looks good, but it's a sunken cost and previous CMON KS gave away smaller expansions as base pledges, anyway.

 

I think, particularly with rising shipping costs, CMON is hunting for whales, that is, backers with deep pockets who are willing to spend $300+ on a game. Some BGG'ers complained that CMON put much of the content into the expansions, which are not the relative loss leader that a base pledge is. Value backers want subsidized shipping, and CMON may be thinking it's better to leave these customers to the competition -- including Amazon and the OLGS. I think KS is evolving into a "deluxe limited edition" market, from a "reward backers for taking on risk" one. It's not longer a compensation for taking on risk, because, for companies like CMON, KS is a marketing platform more than a risk-sharing one. With boardgames, if you don't "need" the game, a value-oriented gamer can wait a few years for a sale and see the non-deluxe base game at half the price of a pledge plus shipping.

 

CMON may be doing something right. But, consistent with complaints about their communication, they just might not be telling us. :huh:

 

Edited by ced1106
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1 hour ago, odinsgrandson said:


- So we're saying that the minis look ugly?  If that's the reason, why didn't this game start flailing sooner?
 

 

I meant the "ivory" renders (whatever those are supposed to be) don't do them justice.  There are some grey (resins?) photos on BGG that show what the sculpts for a few actually look like.  Pretty nice.

 

There was somebody criticizing how "flat" many of the minis look -- single piece minis with arms spread out for easy manufacturing.  And the ivory renders flatten them out further.

 

Apparently Bloodborne shipping caught some people by surprise so they are more cautious now.  Makes sense to me.

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Interesting that chits drawing would be so controversial. 

 

I dont mind drawing tokens in Myth, but that is not a frequent aspect of the game nor as varied as it is here.

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On 8/8/2019 at 5:03 PM, ced1106 said:

 

At $1M, I'm not seeing what they're doing wrong, either. $1M is better than several of CMON's other KS, such as Munchkin Dungeons and Rum and Bones. Trudvang is no Zombicide or Bloodborne blockbuster. It's a niche game, for Paul Bonner and Trudvang RPG fans. 

 

Timed EB's look bad on KickTraq, but pretty much all campaigns that had EB's have a similar pattern. 

 


Ok, maybe it is because of the timed Early Birds?  I'm going to post up Kicktraq graphs for the various campaigns that did this, and we'll see if that's true.



- Kingdom Death 1.5
dailybackers.png

- Middara
dailybackers.png

- Etherfields
dailybackers.png

- Trudvang
dailybackers.png


Again, this game is clearly going to fund with a healthy total, but the pattern is WAY off.  The other ones maybe didn't have as big a finish as some other Kickstarters, but even with the timed Early Birds, none of them had even a single day of negative backers.

Edited by odinsgrandson

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IIRC, KDM had limited EB's and not timed ones (I sure had to fight for my EB!). Middara had a 24-hour free miniature, not timed EB's. I'm not seeing EB's or 24-hour free miniature with with Etherfield, but they could have changed the campaign graphic after the first 24 hours.  Bloodborne, Solomon Kane, and EXO had timed EB's. (I'm guessing BB's dip isn't as obvious because of the IP.) Another KS had timed EB's and, of course, I forgot their name. :mellow:

 

I don't even think KS differentiates between a limited EB (finite number of pledges available) vs. a timed EB (non-finite number pledges available for first 24 or whatever hours) after the campaign is over, so it's harder to find campaigns that had timed EB's. Thanks, KS. <_<

 

Looks like Trudvang's shipping has been updated to $15-$25 for USA for a base pledge. That's less than Bloodborne's $45 shipping, but BB unlocked more boxes. I'm curious to see how much backers will actually pay after the campaign closes. Trudvang has a core box, an expansion box, and a SG box as the basic pledge?

 

dailybackers.png

 

dailybackers.png

 

 

dailybackers.png

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