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Randomness XVI: Brains versus Bleach - an Epic Rap Battle in Iambic Pentameter.

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2 hours ago, Marvin said:

Found it! $130 from Amazon. Comes with everything to run and stake down and all. I am so incredibly tempted lol. But I have no children and live in the country off the road and won't even be home on Halloween anyway, so there is literally no way I can justify this.

 

Maybe if I buy it and put it up at my brothers house when he's not home... :rock:

 

Dragons are a multiholiday decoration.  my black dragon goes up just before halloween, he gets a pilgrims hat for thanks giving and then a santa hat for christmas when he is joined by my christmas dragon and the christmas lights.

 

See good for 2 months at least!

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2 hours ago, Marvin said:

Found it! $130 from Amazon. Comes with everything to run and stake down and all. I am so incredibly tempted lol. But I have no children and live in the country off the road and won't even be home on Halloween anyway, so there is literally no way I can justify this.

 

Maybe if I buy it and put it up at my brothers house when he's not home... :rock:

you know they make more than one kind of them right? there was a story in the paper several months ago here about someone who had been feuding with their neighbors because they set up an entire council of blow up dragons in their front yard.

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3 hours ago, Unruly said:

 

Yea, but he's got like 4 lines and then everyone else in the game were voiced by two or three people. Because it's Bethesda, and that's how they do it. They'll hire one or two people to voice named characters, then they'll just grab a couple interns from the office to voice everyone else. So everyone ends up sounding the same.

Oh, there’s this one guy who did the voice for one of the soldiers in Skyrim who also did the voice for Fenris in dragon age 2, and every time one of those soldiers walks by I have to say “hi fenris! Have some magic!” BOOM!

 

3 hours ago, Marvin said:

Found it! $130 from Amazon. Comes with everything to run and stake down and all. I am so incredibly tempted lol. But I have no children and live in the country off the road and won't even be home on Halloween anyway, so there is literally no way I can justify this.

 

Maybe if I buy it and put it up at my brothers house when he's not home... :rock:

Sure there is. You like it. There’s your justification.

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2 hours ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

The median is one of three types of average. This is not some random definition, it's basic mathematics. In a normal distribution, the median is precisely equal to the mean (the second type of mathematical average). (The third "average", the mode, isn't useful in this application.)

 

But since it's clear that you're only interested in a single definition of "average" that has nothing to do with math, and you're apparently unwilling to even grant the existence of the term's first dictionary definition, I'm done with this now.

I sincerely disagree.

 

What follows is largely, but by no means entirely, a definition of terms - I had Megan desnarkify it to her heart's desire.

 

Look up the derivation of averages,  if you do not know it or remember it, then come back. It is important for the discussion.

 

Probability is a part of mathematics, as is statistics, arguing that they are not would be foolishness.

 

What you are actually attempting to argue is semantics - via dictionary definitions - not mathematics.

 

From the first instance I noted that I was referring to the average intelligence range.

 

It is, in most cases, the proper use of the term 'average intelligence'. See the article previously referenced, or the handy chart I included below.

 

The derived average on the Stanford-Binet scale is the total divided by the number of participants in the sampling with a 15% standard deviation. 90-109 is considered the average for sampling purposes, not 100.00 with no deviation from that single number.

 

That deviation helps to pull the numbers toward center, and correct for the aggregate results. (I am using the standard Stanford-Binet scale, if you wish to look it up. I do not entirely agree with the scale, but it has seen use for the better part of a century.)

 

Iq-test-scores-700x365.png

 

IQ is an aggregate of multiple axes - it is, itself, an average derived for each individual sampled.


Personally, I would be more comfortable with having a multiple axes IQ rating than the aggregate result.

 

The axes are not coequal for all purposes - each has a range in which it is primary, and others less useful. (See Thurstone and Gardner - the argument goes back a ways. Gardner defined eight axes of intelligence.)

 

I purposely used the term 'range' in my original posts, if I remember properly - you were the one that felt a need to use a differing and narrower definition - and then moved the goal post in each successive post, pulling 3% from what I will euphemize as a hat. (I honestly have no idea where you pulled that from. Maybe by trying to define 'Average Intelligence' as 100.00 - with no deviation from center, even by a single decimal point?)

 

50% is a heck of a lot larger than the mythical 3% you conjured up.

 

It is also larger than the 16.1% of the ranges to either side of that central range. (I had remembered it as 16.2 - so I was off by a whopping 0.1%. Memory is weird.) 100 is the median of the scale, but the average includes a 15% deviation from that median.

 

You will also note that I sourced my reference - which supported my definition that the average IQ is the range into which 50% of the populace falls.

 

Which in turn supported my statement that including the average range (not the median, not the mean) results in skewing the total to 75%, not 50%.

 

Again - it is a bell curve, not a linear progression -- average is not quite the same as median, though in many cases the average encompasses that median. (Most cases, certainly - but my inability to pull a counter example from memory does not preclude such a counter example.)

 

You attempted to define average intelligence as the center point of the full spectrum, with no deviation - when it is, instead, a range within that spectrum, including a deviation. You went so far as to attempt limiting it to the second decimal place.

 

You did not accept my conclusion - but that neither makes my conclusion incorrect, nor does it make yours correct.

 

In later posts I also stated that had GEM used the term median or 100 IQ in his initial statement, he would have been more nearly correct.

 

You are insisting that the restatement is identical to the initial statement, when that is demonstrably not the case. (GEM has wisely distanced himself from this discourse - I will admit that Wisdom was my dump stat.)

 

When you are administered an IQ test and considered to be of average intelligence, you are compared within a range. 98 is every bit as within that range as 106. Both are considered average intelligence. It is highly likely that your specific numbers are not distributed evenly across all the axes defining your IQ - you might be better at language than at math, with a poor rote memory for history. Or have a better ability with mathematics, but can get lost in an elevator. Having identical IQ scores does not mean that the areas of competence within the aggregate are also identical.

 

Average, mean, and median all have similar, often overlapping, but not identical, definitions.

 

Close enough for the one word summary at the beginning of the dictionary entry, but lacking when compared to the full definition of each word. (And why I prefer the OED* to the M-W dictionary - the definitions and etymology tend to be more complete.)

 

These differences are important for statistical purposes - and for the derived demographics that include intelligence as one of the defining axes.

 

I was more than willing to let this rest until you felt the need to stick your oar in again.

 

But you did feel the need, so it comes up again. So, nailing down definitions and sources.

 

I fear the result is a bit of a word salad.

 

But, the sum of what this entire salad, soup, and three course meal entails is this - most voters are of average intelligence - and this is true regardless of party affiliation.

 

Twenty five percent will be below, twenty five percent will be above, but the teeming middle is full half of the populace, without including either extreme.

 

The average person is... average. (I would like to think that the average participants on these fora are above the national average, at least on most axes defining intelligence.)

 

It also makes the numbers look more damning when you can state that 75% of the voting populace is of average intelligence or below... Or much brighter when you can truthfully state that 75% of the voting population is of average intelligence or higher - simply by including that almighty middle ground**. (Statistics do not lie - liars use statistics.)

 

The Auld Grump

 

* I feel it worth mentioning, or at least amusing, that young John Reuel Ronald Tolkien worked on the first edition of the OED - where he was put in charge of the letter W. Somehow that always sounds like a line out of Monty Python.

 

** This is the core of my dislike of GEM's initial statement - the average is a wide range, and can really mess up the extremes when included. It was a discrepancy that my lecturers in statistics and sociology*** both made damned sure I noted. It is a very easy method to disguise outright falsehoods within a factually accurate statement.

 

*** Statistics was a required course for sociology... not a surprise, really.

 

*EDIT* Statistics is also where I learned that I do not love maths.... Calculus was where I learned that my skill with maths had a limit....

Edited by TheAuldGrump
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Daggerfall rebuilt using the Unity engine... Good grief, I had forgotten how big Daggerfall is.... Walking across the map would take 66 hours, real time....

 

*EDIT* Megan finished editing snark out of my first post at the same time as I finished writing my second post.... Thanks Megan!

 

The Auld Grump

Edited by TheAuldGrump
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53 minutes ago, TheAuldGrump said:

Daggerfall rebuilt using the Unity engine... Good grief, I had forgotten how big Daggerfall is.... Walking across the map would take 66 hours, real time....

 

*EDIT* Megan finished editing snark out of my first post at the same time as I finished writing my second post.... Thanks Megan!

 

The Auld Grump

De nada. ::):

 

Daggerfall. Wow, graphics came a long way in twenty years, didn't they?

 

I think Oblivion is about as far back as I want to take it.

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3 hours ago, Werkrobotwerk said:

you know they make more than one kind of them right? there was a story in the paper several months ago here about someone who had been feuding with their neighbors because they set up an entire council of blow up dragons in their front yard.

That was author Diana Rowland.

 

On the mathematical argument, I will mildly comment that the whole thing somewhat depends on the idea that an IQ result is a) stable and b) meaningful. Both exceedingly dubious notions.

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I aten't dead.

 

I've been away on a holiday for the last month. Just got back on Saturday night and still trying to recover from the jetlag. Sorry for no warning, but I'm a bit paranoid about posting this sortof thing online.

 

SWMBO and I went to the antipodes (our antipodes - Europe. Not the European antipodes, which is where I live). We enjoyed most of it, but the crowds got a bit much at times. One of our most enjoyable memories from the trip was sitting in the Black Forest eating black forest cake...

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8 hours ago, Corsair said:

Praying here

 

 

Thanks.

She's had surgery, that went well.

She was supposed to stay overnight but the Surgeon decided she needed intravenous antibiotics, so now she will have to stay a week!

It's not a dangerous thing anymore, it's realitively simple and all, but it's sad that she's there.

She will celebrate her 81st birtday Sunday, so it's now unclear if she will be discharged by then or not.

That's a bummer, we might have to celebrate her birthday in the hospital.

 

9 hours ago, kay13 said:

Good Morning All!

 

Happy Monday.  <sigh>

 

(I do like my work, I just like my cosy home more and getting dressed and all is so much like WORK but thats what pays for the home and the toys)

 

 

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor boxer dog monday meme

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2 hours ago, sumbloke said:

Sorry for no warning, but I'm a bit paranoid about posting this sortof thing online.

Wise. 

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Well it's 5am and I have to catch a plane.  Not one if my best laid plans...  I don't like beating the sun to the horizon

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33 minutes ago, Kangaroorex said:

Well it's 5am and I have to catch a plane.  Not one if my best laid plans...  I don't like beating the sun to the horizon

 Have a safe trip!

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12 hours ago, kay13 said:

Good Morning All!

 

Happy Monday.  <sigh>

 

(I do like my work, I just like my cosy home more and getting dressed and all is so much like WORK but thats what pays for the home and the toys)

 

I absolutely agree with you.

 

1 hour ago, Kangaroorex said:

Well it's 5am and I have to catch a plane.  Not one if my best laid plans...  I don't like beating the sun to the horizon

Safe travels.

 

 

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Thanks @Glitterwolfand @Chaoswolf I'm off to Missoula Montana.  Oh well, with a 3 hour layover at least in have time for lunch!

 

On an aside, bloodwood is a really hard wood to work on a lathe.  It has a tenancy to explode, which is sad because the final product is really pretty

Edited by Kangaroorex
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