Randomness XVI: Brains versus Bleach - an Epic Rap Battle in Iambic Pentameter.

[ratsmitglied]

8 hours ago, PaganMegan said:

Is it just me, or is there  whole lot more to Oblivion than there was to Skyrim?

 

At the cost of everybody having faces made from Silly Putty.

 

I am loving the magic system a lot more than Skyrim's.

Not just you, the magic system in Oblivion is significantly better than Skyrim, and generally the game feels like there is more to it.

 

Saying that as someone who has completed Oblivion a few times (with all expansions) compared to not actually ever getting to the end of Skyrim...

[Marvin]

Damn, y'all, what an amazing and unexpected turn that all took.

[TheAuldGrump]

9 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

The average (in this case both the mean and the median) of 3d6 is 10.5. Half of the rolls will be above that and half below.

 

By definition, the average IQ, again both mean and median, is 100. Neglecting the very small number who are at precisely 100, half of the population will be below 100 and half will be above. In other words, half will be above average and half will be below. For reference, here is a typical definition of "average":

 

 

There are other definitions, of course, for instance:

 

 

Each of you is using a different sense of the word. Communication works better when people use the same words in the same way.

 

That 'very small number' is a very large number - with disproportionate percentage of people falling into that 100 range compared with quotients that are either higher or lower. (And with reason - the scale assumes an average of 100 IQ, and scales proportionate to that number. More akin to 100 C than to 212 F. The scale is built outwards from that number. Fahrenheit was entirely arbitrary, with the numbers falling where they fell. Celsius was created with the physical states of water at sea level as the key points on the temperature scale.)

 

And, again, referring to 3d6 - -more rolls result in 10 or 11 than result in 8-9 or 12-13, more rolls result in 8-9 or 12-13 than result in 6-7 or 14-15. 3d6 produces a bell curve.

 

That 10-11 is a higher percentage of the range than the numbers further from the center. So, including 10-11 in either end scews the percentages,

 

In short, including the middle of the bell curve on either end results in a total that is higher than 50%. And that is the core of my objection. There are simply more people with100 -110 IQs than 89-99 IQs or with 111-120 IQs.

 

Also, I am tired, and working on game mechanics at the moment - maths are on my brain.

 

***

 

Back to the game concerns - I used Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos Pathfinder book - in which the King in Yellow is a template that is applied to existing creatures, rather than an entry of its own.

 

Likewise, I created a template for the Red Queen - which has not yet been applied to the Queen, and won't until the ceremony is complete.

 

The Auld Grump

[Doug Sundseth]

3 minutes ago, TheAuldGrump said:

That 'very small number' is a very large number

 

Approximately 5% of the population will have an IQ between 99 and 101. Approximately 3% of the population will have an IQ between 99.5 and 100.5. Approximately 0.8% of the population will have an IQ between 99.9 and 100.1. As the interval decreases, the percentage in the range approaches 0.

 

You're welcome to consider any of those to be "a very large number", I don't.

 

Half of the population of any distribution will be above the median and half will be below it. That's the definition of median, by the way. For a normal distribution, the mean is precisely the same as the median. IQ is defined as a normal distribution across the population. Half of IQs will always be above and half below the mean and median, which are both defined as 100. (The number is regularly redefined, btw. 100 IQ on a test today is not the same score as it would have been on the same test 50 years ago.)

 

As to the second definition, a fairly common definition of "typical" would be "within one standard deviation". Inconveniently, a fairly common definition of "atypical" would be "outside of 1.5 standard deviations". The former includes approximately 68% of the population. The latter includes approximately 87% of the population. "everything in the second and third quartiles" would be an idiosyncratic, but not obviously unreasonable, range.

 

If you want to communicate, it helps to make sure that your interlocutor is using terms in the same way you are. If you willfully use terms differently, the logic fallacy you are using is "equivocation".

[TheAuldGrump]

16 minutes ago, ratsmitglied said:

Not just you, the magic system in Oblivion is significantly better than Skyrim, and generally the game feels like there is more to it.

 

Saying that as someone who has completed Oblivion a few times (with all expansions) compared to not actually ever getting to the end of Skyrim...

Hear, hear!

 

And, for me, one of the biggest differences is that you actually deal with the main plot in Oblivion - while in Skyrim you deal with

the dragons - who are a pawn of the Aldmeri Dominion.

 

Plus... one of the things that I enjoyed in both Oblivion and Daggerfall was the growing cosmopolitan nature of the Empire. When by the time of Oblivion you could find orcs running bookstores. (I still remember how I felt when I was playing Daggerfall and learned that the orcs weren't the villains - that the orcs fallen near the Emperor's body had died trying to defend him, not attacking him.)

 

And the forlorn cry of 'Vengeeaance!' echoing through the streets of the Imperial city....

 

Oooh! Someone is converting Daggerfall to the Unity engine! Cool beans!

 

The Auld Grump <-distracted by the shiny....

[redambrosia]

46 minutes ago, ratsmitglied said:

Not just you, the magic system in Oblivion is significantly better than Skyrim, and generally the game feels like there is more to it.

 

Saying that as someone who has completed Oblivion a few times (with all expansions) compared to not actually ever getting to the end of Skyrim...

Jebus  it took me forever to platinum Skyrim (just the game, not the DLCs). How much more can there be...?

[TheAuldGrump]

20 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

Approximately 5% of the population will have an IQ between 99 and 101. Approximately 3% of the population will have an IQ between 99.5 and 100.5. Approximately 0.8% of the population will have an IQ between 99.9 and 100.1. As the interval decreases, the percentage in the range approaches 0.

 

You're welcome to consider any of those to be "a very large number", I don't.

 

Half of the population of any distribution will be above the median and half will be below it. That's the definition of median, by the way. For a normal distribution, the mean is precisely the same as the median. IQ is defined as a normal distribution across the population. Half of IQs will always be above and half below the mean and median, which are both defined as 100. (The number is regularly redefined, btw. 100 IQ on a test today is not the same score as it would have been on the same test 50 years ago.)

 

As to the second definition, a fairly common definition of "typical" would be "within one standard deviation". Inconveniently, a fairly common definition of "atypical" would be "outside of 1.5 standard deviations". The former includes approximately 68% of the population. The latter includes approximately 87% of the population. "everything in the second and third quartiles" would be an idiosyncratic, but not obviously unreasonable, range.

 

If you want to communicate, it helps to make sure that your interlocutor is using terms in the same way you are. If you willfully use terms differently, the logic fallacy you are using is "equivocation".

Median, yes - average, no.

 

The average - 90-109 covers 50% of the populace - and that is a very, very large number. And it is nicely clustered right at 100. That 100 is, in point of fact, a very large number.

 

110-119 covers only 16.1%. Ditto for 80-89.

 

I have no idea what hat you pulled 3% out of.

 

The Auld Grump - I will note that GEM used the term average - and that the average is not 100 - it is the range 90-109. I was pretty damned clear that the average is a range, yes? And that he would be more nearly correct had he used the numeric 100 IQ rather than the broader term 'average'?

Edited October 20, 2019 by TheAuldGrump

[Kangaroorex]

@Green Eyed Monster and @Mad Jack. You're both headed for the buzzy place here shortly!  I am not touching that conversation.

[kay13]

Ohhhhh excitement over numbers.  

 

Not going to touch on it except to like bomb all posts.

[ratsmitglied]

2 hours ago, redambrosia said:

Jebus  it took me forever to platinum Skyrim (just the game, not the DLCs). How much more can there be...?

Not sure I got distracted by shiny things, like Fallout New Vegas...

[Glitterwolf]

[Chaoswolf]

Here, let me help you all drift towards a different line of conversation:

 

 

Food hasn't been mentioned in at least 3 or 4 pages.

[Crowley]

Coffee...

 

Driving my bride to the airport in a bit, then home to do laundry and cooking, then working a shift at the coop, then D&D to finish up the day. Gonna try to squeeze in a bit of time to work on my dino troopers. 

[TGP]

10 hours ago, Mad Jack said:

 

 At the risk of getting buzzy, the Forefathers knew what they were doing when they wanted to limit the 'democracy" to just educated people, who'd been taught to think with their Classical educations... Defaulting to 'average" decision-making ability as a way of running a country doesn't particularly inspire me to visions of a bright future. People are dumb.

That’s what Noah said. That’s what Nebuchadnezzar said. And yet, humanity keeps blundering along. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Kangaroorex said:

@Green Eyed Monster and @Mad Jack. You're both headed for the buzzy place here shortly!  I am not touching that conversation.

There was also @Marvin but then things got all mathematical, mathemematical, ...something.  One of them went past 20. @buglips*the*goblin warned us against that. 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Crowley said:

Coffee...

 

Driving my bride to the airport in a bit, then home to do laundry and cooking, then working a shift at the coop, then D&D to finish up the day. Gonna try to squeeze in a bit of time to work on my dino troopers. 

Is “the coop” your new gig ?  Or is that something else?  (Who works on Sundays outside of a retail operation?)

[Citrine]

Earlier this week, the refrigerator portion of our refrigerator became not very cold at all, while the freezer portion became super cold.  We had to throw out a lot of food. . So we emptied out both sections, hubby found a huge amount of cat hair underneath, blocking an air intake, plus the cooler coils were completely frozen over.  After defrosting it all night, we cleaned up the water mess and turned it back on, and luckily it is working again.  We are buying some dedicated thermometers for the unit, so we can stave off any future problems like this.

 

In other news, I am going in my second business trip ever on Monday, attending two days of meetings to discuss some new functionality the customer wants added.  I am there to assess the impact to my specific team, and there is a platform guy going as well for the overall systems impact.  Have to do 2 flights each way, since there is almost nothing direct from our local airport.  I come back on Thursday.  Should be interesting.