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pinkymadigan

The return of the Old World

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2 hours ago, Darsc Zacal said:

Until one day a few years later you get a short text from them.

”I don’t know if you’re seeing anybody, and I’m not saying anything, I’m just suggesting you might want to check out my Facebook page in a couple of years.”

Eerily, I've run into a few like that.  Okay, wasn't a years long relationship, but still. 

 

I dunno.  I have a lot of good memories of the game, but at the same time... Well, I guess I shall see how it all plays out over time.  If it's the same fun loving kind of game, and bonus if pricing goes back to early 2000's levels (aka actually more or less affordable) I might seriously consider it... ...If I'm not throwing a ton of money at Reaper, Catalyst Games, Oathsworn, or *insert hobbying supply company here*

 

The biggest thing for me is I'd have to see the oldhammer charm in the minis.  Don't necessarily care if they're plastic, but they really need that charm. 

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3 hours ago, Darsc Zacal said:

Hmm.

 

Ever been in a long term relationship with a significant other?

 

Sure, they may have been high maintenance and you spent more on them than you probably should, but you thought they were worth it and besides, you both  seemed really happy in the relationship even though some of your friends and family may have thought you were being taking advantage of.

 

You figured the two of you were going to be together forever.

 

And then one day out of the blue, and with no warning, and with no reason given, they tell you that the relationship is over. 

They’re leaving you. 

 

And not not only are they leaving you, they’re going to act like the years you were together never happened.

And you never hear from them again.

 

Until one day a few years later you get a short text from them.

”I don’t know if you’re seeing anybody, and I’m not saying anything, I’m just suggesting you might want to check out my Facebook page in a couple of years.”

 

:unsure:

 

 

 

 

 



This is the best description of GW I've ever read!

I hate GW... let's say the thruth their model are fantastic, but also OVERPRICED to use an euphemism... and after some year collecting and painting an army (i'm a slow painter!) they threw everithing in the bin!
And you can only think "WHY?" and your passion for the hobby simply vanish like water in the sun (Basically this is what appened to me years ago).

I will never EVER buy any more models from GW. Thay may disappear from the market and I'll won't give a ****!

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Nowadays, their models aren't even that great, though.

 

hate the Age of Sigmar aesthetic and how that aesthetic influences other fantasy miniatures.

 

I loved the 90s WHFB aesthetic, though.

Edited by criticalhit
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5 hours ago, WhiteWulfe said:

Eerily, I've run into a few like that.  Okay, wasn't a years long relationship, but still. 

 

I dunno.  I have a lot of good memories of the game, but at the same time... Well, I guess I shall see how it all plays out over time.  If it's the same fun loving kind of game, and bonus if pricing goes back to early 2000's levels (aka actually more or less affordable) I might seriously consider it... ...If I'm not throwing a ton of money at Reaper, Catalyst Games, Oathsworn, or *insert hobbying supply company here*

 

The biggest thing for me is I'd have to see the oldhammer charm in the minis.  Don't necessarily care if they're plastic, but they really need that charm. 

 

 

I agree 100%!!!

 

1 hour ago, criticalhit said:

Nowadays, their models aren't even that great, though.

 

hate the Age of Sigmar aesthetic and how that aesthetic influences other fantasy miniatures.

 

I loved the 90s WHFB aesthetic, though.

 

Again something I agree with for 100%

 

I will still gladly buy and paint old GW models, I love the background of the Old World, still think that's about the best fantasy lore there is.

A few years ago I bought a Bastilladon, I needed the smaller serpents and I intend to build it with the Sun Engine for my Lost World.

There are still some nice minis even some new ones, I like the look of the Deepkin for example.

But then there is the price.

 

And I just can't get over the way they treated their fans, Citadel who became GW were gamers/modellers, then came the lizards in suits who ruined it all, maybe Auld Grump is right and the new CEO tries to make things right.

To me the comparison @Darsc Zacal made about the ex, is spot on, sure if she's hot there can be a nice moment, but we're not going to get together again...meaning I might buy a model or a book if the look is alright, but I will mostly spend my money elsewhere.

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12 hours ago, Chaoswolf said:

Interesting.....

I wanted a little more time to think about/process this information.

I never played the game ( I wanted to, but the local scene was all 40k, all the time. I was THRILLED when my local store got a Mordheim campaign going, as I thought that this might lead to some interest in Fantasy ), but I enjoyed reading the Black Library novels and other fluff about the world.

 

I was torn when they finally let Chaos win; I was super happy (guess which army I happen to have a lot of?) when Archaon won and set the world on fire. And then they turned it up to 11 and nuked the whole thing. Gone, g'bye, nada, c-ya later. 

I was quite unimpressed with AOS, both the models and the setting.

 

I'll be watching, but I'm not holding out very much hope.

 

1 hour ago, criticalhit said:

Nowadays, their models aren't even that great, though.

 

hate the Age of Sigmar aesthetic and how that aesthetic influences other fantasy miniatures.

 

I loved the 90s WHFB aesthetic, though.

I agree. Technically, they may be excellent, but they have no soul. They're boring, they have no personality, they're all the same dude in different poses.

Another thing, a lot of their newer range of figures are neat to look at, but (IMO) are entirely too fragile to DO anything with.

Check out the new version of Nagash the Sorcerer:

 

99120207029_DeathLordsNagashSupremelordoftheUndead01.jpg.7544f2039e67e0ac1fe8af15f42342f8.jpg

 

Pretty cool looking.

And so fragile that if you look at it too hard, something breaks.

Not for me, thanks.

If they were to start casting more of their older metal figures again, I'd be all over that (assuming some sort of SANE pricing).

 

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18 hours ago, criticalhit said:

Call me when the Knights of Bretonnia ride again.

I think Grumpy is hoping for Tomb Kings. ::P:

 

I never played Warhammer. But I love me some Mordheim and HeroQuest.

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Well, it's not like they canceled the Old World because it was a best selling game. My understanding is that it was a terrible seller and it was either AoS is successful or they become the 40K company.

 

Some of the comlaints lobbed prove it was the right thing to do. "I haven't played for years." "Too expensive." "I used to play." 

 

You weren't the market the second you stopped buying product.

 

I'm not a fan of everything they do but in terms of providing value, their start collecting boxes, their battleforce boxes and their various board game boxes, like the Feast of Bone, often sell out on presales alone and are flipped for large sums of cash.

 

Their paints and efforts to get people to actually paint, are leagues ahead of almost anyone else. Everyone else, especially on Youtube, is playing catch up. The Army painter is starting to get some stuff in, which is great, but who else? Vallejo every blue moon? Reaper ?

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12 minutes ago, JoeGKushner said:

Well, it's not like they canceled the Old World because it was a best selling game. My understanding is that it was a terrible seller and it was either AoS is successful or they become the 40K company.

 

Some of the comlaints lobbed prove it was the right thing to do. "I haven't played for years." "Too expensive." "I used to play." 

 

You weren't the market the second you stopped buying product.

 

I'm not a fan of everything they do but in terms of providing value, their start collecting boxes, their battleforce boxes and their various board game boxes, like the Feast of Bone, often sell out on presales alone and are flipped for large sums of cash.

 

Their paints and efforts to get people to actually paint, are leagues ahead of almost anyone else. Everyone else, especially on Youtube, is playing catch up. The Army painter is starting to get some stuff in, which is great, but who else? Vallejo every blue moon? Reaper ?

You raise some good points, however the positives you cite did not happen until recently, under Rountree.  For over a decade, GW dug their own hole, pricing their customers out of the market, then being suprised that sales dropped. The Old World setting being killed off showed that they had no clue as to what the problem actually was. Ending at 8th made a certain sense, seeing as how out of control balance and entry price had gotten, nuking the setting did not. After all, if the setting was as "trope heavy and overdone" as many of it's detractors claim, then why did the Total War versions gain such a strong audience? Why did the video game version of Mordheim gather a large following? Also in a world where just about every setting has become embedded with the WOW/MTG aesthetic and planewalking shenannigans, the low fantasy grimdark of the Old World was just about the only alternative left and they killed it to replace it with more of the same. The setting was never the problem, taking their customers for granted was.

As to painting, Duncan Rhodes and his channel were probably the best idea GW has had in over ten years. I know of several FLGS where GW is sponsoring the paint nights, however seeing as how GW has had market dominance for a long time, and for quite awhile had the "GW Hobby" brainwashing going on I can't help but take a more cynical view on the matter. Especially considering that the quality of their paints has been dropping except for washes and inks for a very long time. Their original line in the 90s was functionly immortal, after they introduced the "screw you" top in the late 90s/early 2000s, the quality went downhill fast. From no other company have I had to return freshly bought paints that were dried solid.  That the sponsored paint nights were using Bones minis was something I found rather ironic. 

The reason for the excellent sales of the board game boxes is also likely due to the fact that they tend to be a limited run type of thing, which feeds a sense of urgency and a speculation market. The start collecting boxes are a good value, and a reason for a cautious optimism in certain ways, but there is a lot of water still under the bridge. 

 

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2 hours ago, JoeGKushner said:

Well, it's not like they canceled the Old World because it was a best selling game. My understanding is that it was a terrible seller and it was either AoS is successful or they become the 40K company.

 

Some of the comlaints lobbed prove it was the right thing to do. "I haven't played for years." "Too expensive." "I used to play." 

 

You weren't the market the second you stopped buying product.

 

I'm not a fan of everything they do but in terms of providing value, their start collecting boxes, their battleforce boxes and their various board game boxes, like the Feast of Bone, often sell out on presales alone and are flipped for large sums of cash.

 

Their paints and efforts to get people to actually paint, are leagues ahead of almost anyone else. Everyone else, especially on Youtube, is playing catch up. The Army painter is starting to get some stuff in, which is great, but who else? Vallejo every blue moon? Reaper ?

 

The old GW marketing strategy actually alienated customers.

I loved the lore, I collected the armies and books, but every time again they would "upgrade" and change stuff, release new books even before you had your army complete.

After a while it gets boring and when new players hit the market they started losing customers.

See my earlier experience with the Warmaster Setting.

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I am a bitter old man. I always loved the old world. I was a 40k player long before I got into WFB, I even started 'playing' Blood Bowl, Mordheim, and Warmaster, but I waited until the 7th edition of the game to get into it. I started in a League in a store two hours away. One of the reasons I waited so long is I loved several armies, Empire, Lizardmen, Chaos, Skaven, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, and Tomb Kings........ I ended up with a starter force for the Empire, Dwarfs and even a unit of Tomb King, which never got built. My main force was Lizardmen. I bought enough for a 2000? Size force. Then they did their up rev...... Went to 8th..... $75 for the rule book priced me out of the game, course it did not help that I was trying to drive two hours every week to try to keep a game going......  Then they burned the world I loved.....

 They had already burn most of the games I loved, Epic, Warmaster Mordheim, Blood Bowl, Mon O War, and Battlefleet Gothic....... They burned me to the ground.... And as a dwarf... I hold a grudge. 

 

Now, having said that my hate runs deep, IF and only IF they do it justice, I might forgive a bit, just a bit. Maybe just enough to make a purchase from a third party. They would have to go to extreme measures to please me enough to completely forgive them.

 

I am sorry for the long winded post.  Darsc's post about the ex is very spot on. She burned my hold to nothing, it still has not fully recovered from the burn. She will never win my heart back. We will see. 

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I can add little to this discussion aside from to reiterate that Darsc pretty much nailed it with his extremely unpleasant and yet largely accurate analogy.

I liked Oldhammer, circa the mid nineties, and then they changed the rules set, told me I had to split my Undead army up and buy new Orcs and Goblins models if I wanted to play in THEIR venues, and while I could still play the game with friends, I felt like the company and its associated retailers and fanboys had made a point of peeing in my face and laughing about the "rain." And I was already getting irritated with their idea that a metal "soldier in ranks" model was a few bucks, but a Named Leader Figure was three to four times as much, even if it used less metal to make, because the hell with you, we're in it for the dough, right?

When it became clear that they were catering to suckers and would pretty much be continuing this business model for the foreseeable future, that's where I gave up, divested, unloaded my armies at Bartertown, and moved on to other things. I did buy a copy of Space Hulk when it reissued, because I figured "How badly could they retroactively screw up a board game?"

And I dared to consider that they might have learned their lesson a while back when they announced they were bringing back the specialist games, and I was delighted to think that Necromunda was coming back... but I held off. I would wait. 

And I heard the screams and gnashing of teeth when it was found by the early adopters that, ha, ha, ha, that boxed Necromunda set? Well, ha ha ha, we didn't include ALL the rules, NO, no, no, those will be coming out LATER, in the big expensive HARDBACK, ha, ha, ha....

Naw, these folks haven't learned a thing. Not yet. Not while they still think they're the eight hundred pound gorilla. There are other games out there, and many of them are better. And nearly all of them know enough not to flat out insult their fans.

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17 hours ago, PaganMegan said:

 

 But I love me some Mordheim and HeroQuest.

YES!!

 

16 hours ago, Lord of the Dish Pit said:

The reason for the excellent sales of the board game boxes is also likely due to the fact that they tend to be a limited run type of thing, which feeds a sense of urgency and a speculation market. The start collecting boxes are a good value, and a reason for a cautious optimism in certain ways, but there is a lot of water still under the bridge. 

 

That bolded part really annoys the bejiminees out of me. There have been a few of their recent boxed games that I thought looked interesting enough to buy. The stupidly high price point meant that I couldn't just grab one on a whim. So, I saved up and went back to the store; they were all gone. I tried to see if the store could order me one and they couldn't because it was already OOP, or their distributors couldn't get any more, or GW made the item online only (Buy it straight from GW), or whatever.

 

....and I'm starting to talk about pricing, which is going away from the original topic, so I'll stop here.

 

RE: return of the Olde World---I'll wait, and watch, and see what happens.

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Though DtY and Que in our group love the hell out of the new Necromunda, we just can't get past the prices.

 

Their plastics are the price of sane companies' resins. ::o:

 

But both Dennis and Chris say that the new rules are better and reflect the Houses better. But whoo, those prices!

 

 

Grump is optimistic, and hopes Warhammer:Olde World will be reasonably priced. I think he has pretty rose colored glasses on. <_<

 

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GW can do cheaper minis, the Warhammer: Underworlds sets are reasonably priced (by GW standards anyways), and I wouldn't be surprised if any Old World starter sets were decently priced (again, by GW standards), but I think anyone expecting them to price things cheaper in general is going to be disappointed.

 

Which is the main reason I just don't understand this idea at all, and wished the announcement had more info.

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