The return of the Old World

[TheAuldGrump]

On 11/16/2019 at 1:55 PM, PaganMegan said:

I think Grumpy is hoping for Tomb Kings.

 

I never played Warhammer. But I love me some Mordheim and HeroQuest.

Nope, Grumpy is hoping for Empire!

 

The Auld Grump

[DocPiske]

As I understand it GW is a publicly held company and is legally obligated to maximize shareholder value. They had a management team that did not understand the niche nature of the business and tried to focus on only the most profitable product lines and increased prices as high as the market would bear, not unlike what WotC did with 4e D&D. That strategy didn't work out and now with new management they are trying a different tact. 

 

About a year ago I received a survey email invite from GW asking what changes I would like to see for AoS and answered every question with some variation of "Bring back the Olde World". I suspect they received a lot of similar responses. So like WotC with D&D, and Blizzard Entertainment with WoW Classic, they are finally listening to the fans.

 

I was not happy with AoS but wasn't much affected. My friends and I have extensive collections of unpainted models and still have the 8th edition books. I suspect we could make no further purchases and be set for life, but I'm still happy to hear the Olde World is coming back. There are still a few holes in my armies you see...

[Flying Toaster]

Looks to be quite interesting. I had been looking at models and occasionally had a thought or two about WFB but never got into it at the time. I started when Age of Sigmar came out and I love it! Since then I'd wondered what it would be like to play "Old Hammer." My AoS armies are built partly with that in mind as I heard it was more strategic than 40k was so I adapted my thinking somewhat. If/When this works out I will welcome it. Partly for the challenge, partly for the stories of the World That Was and partly because some of my models are on the square bases they came with. Not always the best way to fit a regiment together but I make it work.

[Lars Porsenna]

4 hours ago, Flying Toaster said:

My AoS armies are built partly with that in mind as I heard it was more strategic than 40k was so I adapted my thinking somewhat.

 

Personally I always thought WHFB was the better game compared to WH40K, so I was pretty upset when they killed it. I don't think AoS is a good replacement either, as it takes a mass battle game & turns it into a skirmish game similar to 40K. I think GW can & should support all 3 games, to give players options: AoS for skirmish, WHFB for mass battle. They could even reintroduce Warmaster for large scale battles, & create a gaming ecosystem for fantasy. We shall see...

 

Damon.

[Glitterwolf]

2 hours ago, Lars Porsenna said:

 

Personally I always thought WHFB was the better game compared to WH40K, so I was pretty upset when they killed it. I don't think AoS is a good replacement either, as it takes a mass battle game & turns it into a skirmish game similar to 40K. I think GW can & should support all 3 games, to give players options: AoS for skirmish, WHFB for mass battle. They could even reintroduce Warmaster for large scale battles, & create a gaming ecosystem for fantasy. We shall see...

 

Damon.

 

For a while they had WHFB and a Warhammer Skirmish Rulebook as well.

As for supporting more games, they have never been good at that, games were released and support was always dropped after a few years except for the two big games.

Warmaster, I had that rulebook and three full armies, that was a nice game, eventhough I never found an opponent to play it with, that was a game I wanted to try.

 

[Lars Porsenna]

34 minutes ago, Glitterwolf said:

As for supporting more games, they have never been good at that, games were released and support was always dropped after a few years except for the two big games.

 

 

I think that was really a function of the leadership at the time; if the secondary games didn't make big profits, or it was felt sales ate into the Big Two, they were axed without mercy. With the new leadership this may change. But we have to give it time to see what they do.

 

Damon.

[Glitterwolf]

5 minutes ago, Lars Porsenna said:

 

I think that was really a function of the leadership at the time; if the secondary games didn't make big profits, or it was felt sales ate into the Big Two, they were axed without mercy. With the new leadership this may change. But we have to give it time to see what they do.

 

Damon.

 

If they really bring back the Old World, I might take a look.

I always loved the books and the stories, depending on prices I might even buy a mini or two.

But I will never become a fanboy again, I don't trust GW as far as I can see them and there are so many good mini companies these days, not to mention the world of 3D printing etc.

 

 

[Rob Dean]

On 2/5/2020 at 1:02 PM, Glitterwolf said:

 

But I will never become a fanboy again, I don't trust GW as far as I can see them and there are so many good mini companies these days, not to mention the world of 3D printing etc.

Speaking as an ancient grognard, there have always been so many good mini companies.  GW has always tried to pretend that there weren’t. Play their rules if you find them fun; paint their minis if you like their look, but the options have always been there. 

[Glitterwolf]

7 minutes ago, Rob Dean said:

Speaking as an ancient grognard, there have always been so many good mini companies.  GW has always tried to pretend that there weren’t. Play their rules if you find them fun; paint their minis if you like their look, but the options have always been there. 

 

True, but I'm from the Netherlands and before the Internet, there were only a few companies known here.

GW being the largest.

Since the Internet a whole World opened up.

 

Of course I always loved Grenadier.

[Doug Sundseth]

45 minutes ago, Rob Dean said:

Speaking as an ancient grognard, there have always been so many good mini companies.  GW has always tried to pretend that there weren’t. Play their rules if you find them fun; paint their minis if you like their look, but the options have always been there. 

 

It's funny reading this thread. There are several references to some sort of Golden Age of GW, before they went all money-grubby and bad. And depending on the person, this might have been 10 years ago, or 20, or 30, or whatever.

 

The first version of WHFB that I bought, I bought at Origins '86 in LA. And I haven't seen any substantive changes in the way the company works from then to now. Oh, there are minor corrections, the quality rises and falls (though the sculpting has always been pretty good for when it was released), and the tone stays largely the same. And for that entire time, I've been listening to generation after generation of GW players who have tremendous enthusiasm at the start, gradually become disillusioned, and eventually abandon the company.

 

GW is what it is. If you like their stuff enough to pay their prices, you'll get what you paid for (usually, outside of the occasional misstep, like those of any entertainment company). It's important to realize that GW is a business, though, not your friend. If you're not buying much stuff, you aren't a major concern. And if you're not giving them money, you're not a customer at all, even if you used to be a customer.

 

I've never been much interested in their stuff. Some of the sculpts I've liked quite a bit, but usually not as much as their sales department liked them, and most of their sculpts have not been of any interest to me at all. (They are by no means alone in this; see also Wyrd, Confrontation, KD: M, ....) And the result is that I haven't bought their stuff much. Consider the value proposition you get from them and if it works for you, go for it. And if not, don't.

 

But either way, relax a bit. Nobody is forcing you to buy their stuff or believe that "The GW Hobby" is the only true path. And nobody is facing an eternity of fire and ice for either buying their stuff or not buying their stuff.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I'm still just waiting to see if they're going to ruin the Old World by retconning in Sigmarines so the new players won't feel alienated by their absence.

[Glitterwolf]

I have since long moved on from GW, I have bought a Bastilladon a few years ago and still possess some old school metal minis ( which are awesome) but I will not collect them actively anymore.

The pricetag alone is ridicilous on most of their stuff.

 

I did always love the lore, they had the best background for the WHFB World and I did collect and read all of the army books and such.

Only played the game itself a handful times decades ago.

If they bring the Old World back I might pick up a book or two to read and for fun.

But I also think I will only cherrypick a few minis if they look good and the price is right ( which is not my expectation).

The newer stuff lacks the charisma the older minis had for me.

To each it's own of course.

 

I have found many great minis from Reaper, Lost Kingdoms, TT Combat, Zenith Miniatures etc, and of course I still collect old Grenadier, Ral Partha and early Citadel when I find the price is right.

For me it would be more nostalgia if the lore was brought back.

Closest thing I got now is Total Warhammer I & II on the PC, love that.

 

And I also suspect that IF they brought it back, it would be treated like other games before.

Hype it.

Sell it.

Expand it.

Hype it once more.

Abort mission and stop support.

[TheAuldGrump]

And, rules wise, I am quite happy with Kings of War.

 

Most of the old Warhammer armies can find a home there.

 

I think the closest Megan has come to playing Warhammer was Mordheim. (Still my favorite GW game - and I like it more than other skirmish narrative games on the market, from Vanguard to Frostgrave. (Even though the balance isn't great.))

 

The Auld Grump

[Lidless Eye]

On 2/8/2020 at 1:00 PM, TheAuldGrump said:

And, rules wise, I am quite happy with Kings of War.

 

Most of the old Warhammer armies can find a home there.

 

I think the closest Megan has come to playing Warhammer was Mordheim. (Still my favorite GW game - and I like it more than other skirmish narrative games on the market, from Vanguard to Frostgrave. (Even though the balance isn't great.))

 

The Auld Grump

 

Mordheim is great.  Gotta keep converting Pit Fighters as tribute toward a revival.

[aku-chan]

For anyone still interested in where this might be going, they recently put out a preview of a new unit they're working on:- The Ice Guard of Kislev (Women who fight with magic ice weapons).

 

Spoiler

 

I think the idea is pretty cool, but the Internet ain't happy (when is it ever?).