funded Reaper Bones 5: Enthusiasm and Commentary thread

[YronimosW]

43 minutes ago, haldir said:

I know "evil" metal but he's there if you want him now.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but metal has its place - it's just that the relatively low weight, ease of conversion, durability, and low price of plastic has me spoiled now, so it's all plastic for me now!  

 

Metal still seems like the best choice for those painting up something extra-special for display or competition, though.  That's more like the luxury material for minis...

 

1 hour ago, StarFyre said:

i guess i see bones a bit different (and not really what their goal is).

 

I want a bunch of their versions of D&D monsters that others have not made yet and if they are cheaper, so be it.

Sanjay

 

No problem - there is no wrong way to use Bones! 

 

1 hour ago, Mckenna35 said:

Looking at the comments on KS and MAN, there are a LOT of people who can't be bothered to read!  How does the PM work?  Can I increase my pledge?  Same basic questions over and over again.  Going and looking at FAQ is too hard?  Crikey, you just have to scroll down two questions to see the answer to the person who asked basically the same thing!!  Then there's the "How long is the PM open", which is answered on the front page of the campaign.  Yeesh...  Glad I'm not the one responsible for having to answer them all (politely).  

 

OK, I take that back:  if there's a wrong way to use Bones, some of those Kickstarter Comments folks will find it

 

You can see why Dan went through all the trouble he did to make "fool-proof" tip sheets, and why a lot of folks worried that fool-proof was aiming just a bit too high....

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by YronimosW

[sinless]

I pledged around double the cost of the core set in order to get the core, a couple expansions, and at least one dragon, but then the last day definitely introduced some budget creep to be addressed in the pledge manager phase. Eh, that's how it goes.

[Disciple of Sakura]

6 hours ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

If you need or want to sell some minis, great. I'll warn you of two things from my experience (yours might well be different):

• When I get rid of a mini, I'm immediately a bit sad. It's a piece of art that I put effort into and I never feel like it was a good choice. And I've heard much the same from many other hobby painters.
• Painting for intentional sale is a job, not really a hobby. Again, if that's what you want or need, great, but having painting as a job can also make painting as a hobby much less fun.

As I say, your experience might be very different, so this is just a warning of what my experience has been.

Having attempted to offload several minis via Etsy, I met with extremely limited success. I was in a position where I could paint during work, so I was painting minis even if I didn't necessarily care about them, and then sold those on Etsy or eBay. I also sold my Khanjira after painting it, and a Ma'al Drakar, to help fund Bones 3 and 4, respectively.

3 hours ago, Jeronimus said:

I did buy two characters off HeroForge last year to represent a set of characters my girlfriend and I want to play together at some point in the future, a gnome and a firbolg. I love the figures, they're delightful. Of course, that was right before they pushed another update that included specific firbolg customization options, and the update that allowed for taller minis and the one that allowed for custom posing... so now I have this suboptimal figure and I know I can make it even better.

 

I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of HeroForge miniatures. I bought two last year as a gift for my wife. They were her first D&D PC and the PC's wife, and I only had to do a minor amount of modification to make it so that they could stand facing each other holding hands. Now that you can better customize minis, I wouldn't have had to do any modification on the one mini to get the hands to interlock.

 

As for Bones, I tend to paint the monsters and such first, as the "PC" minis are left until last in my painting slate. That way, if a player winds up needing a new miniature and finds one that works, we don't have to worry about the paint job not matching what they wanted.

 

Of course, nowadays, I don't get to paint nearly as much, and I really, really miss getting through the minis so much more effectively.

[Disciple of Sakura]

At this moment, according to the Pledge Manager, I'm at just under $680, including shipping. I've already put in $300, so that's going to be a lot of months' worth of my spending allowance. Here's my list...

 

Spoiler

Bones 5 Core Set
Armory
Gem Dragon
Zombies
Mounted Wraiths
Loot Golem
Sophie's Lucky Dice
Catapult x2
Troll Bridge Encounter
Ballista x2
Goroloth
Trebuchet x2
Shavynra the Slayer (to be modified into a Linnorm)
The Spiders of Emrith Kul
Krateryx, Shadow Dragon
Arakoth the Ancient
Encounter at Gallowgard
The Dwarf King's Crypt
Pirate Ship
Sirens
Charnel Pit of the Ghoul Queen
Shadows of Ravenhome
Demonic Temptation
Yog-Sothoth
Foerster's Favorites MSP paints
Brinewind Extras
Greek Odyssey Expansion
Brinewind Expansion
Paints

 

[idmonfish]

5 hours ago, kristof65 said:

that's true - Reaper has frequently indicated that the reason we see so many stereotypical elves and such is that they sell well. 

I do think that paradigm might be changing a bit - not that unique minis against type are suddenly selling as well as the stereotypical ones, but the hobby and offerings have grown so much that there are more people seeking the unique and exotic a bit more often in the past.

 

Agreed - a large part of the huge growth in player base for at least 5E D&D is diversification from the classic "white nerdy geek guy" player base - and that new player base is probably going to be looking for representation. I can say as someone who sells minis online - judging by the names about 30% of my customers are female, which is far more than I anticipated. That said - it is the cliche models which by far sell the best.  

[StarFyre]

1 hour ago, dwarvenranger said:

I would like to see this as well, however I think that some of the reluctance has to do with violating WotC IP.

 

A lot of stuff is sufficiently generic.

 

if that was a problem, how can their red dragon have obvious head design from the 3e/4e/5e art?   or how they have mind flayers under a different name in their metal line, etc.  Hell - how about hill, frost, fire, cloud, storm giants?!?!?!

 

doesnt seem like it bothers them that much.   I really think its overstated the IP thing. as long as names, etc arent used.  of course i dont know but hasbro doesnt seem to be like GW in that regard or LOTS of companies, custom 3d print companies, etc all would have been shut down by now or needed to stop certain lines of figures (and this includes reaper)

 

Sanjay

 

 

[dwarvenranger]

That's true, but where's the line? I remember the tentacles and eyeballs kickstarter got served with a c&d for several of it's sculpts, so obviously WotC does care, at least to a certain degree.

[BrokenWolf668]

So with the PM being down I can't do the complete running total, but last I looked, I was up to $920+. Once it's back up, I think I'm going to do some paring down, take a hard look at the expansions. I think I added the Fan favorites and Dungeon Dwellers out of excitement. I'll have to see how I make out at tax time, if I can sell a few items, and what not before I make the final cull. If I can I'm going to get all I've picked already, but I want to have a useful chopping list if I'm not all the way there before the PM closes. 

[TheAuldGrump]

7 hours ago, vulture said:

 

What about on wisps of air? if they were done in translucent? I just *hate* the rod up the broccoli thing.

Otherworld uses flight bases.

 

Not cheap - $52 for twenty of the little pests, on  Paizo.

 

 

The problem is that you do need them in large numbers.

 

Bones would have been ideal.

 

I am sometimes tempted to make vampiric owl stirges - the original myths that spawned the Zelazny strige that spawned the D&D stirge.

 

The Auld Grump

Edited November 5, 2019 by TheAuldGrump

[Skallabjorn]

5 hours ago, Sirithiliel said:

I for one would love a professorial dwarf wearing a pince-nez and a fez. Would it be useful for other people? ....  I mean, yes, yes, it would, it's the best character concept I've ever come up with.

characterful dwarves I would love to see in Bones:

 

"Dwarves" I am looking forward to from this Kickstarter:

 

I know that many of these are not technically dwarves, But with the size increase on the mouslings, they seem like they would make very good dwarven were rodents of some sort, or perhaps (given the right paint job) Were mustelids (otter, badger, ferret, skunk, etc). In the kid adventurers, there are several that would work as young dwarven adventurers. Specifically the 3rd one in the first row and the first one in the second row. The yokai would work quite well as dwarven weres of various types, as well as avatars/emissaries of dwarven deities/powers. Lastly, for the Otters, again, given their size, dwarf were creatures for a riverine or aquatic dwarven society. Just my opinions, YMMV.

[TheAuldGrump]

6 hours ago, TaleSpinner said:

 

No, she was going to be separate, so those aren't an issue.  The issue I had was the ropes I was going to have holding her onto the beam.  They would have to both be a part of her and a part of the beam; where to I put the break in the rope so it matches and models up well.  Very hard to do right.

 

I'm not certain we'll do the plaque either, I mean the beam is a big plaque.  could just put nail head in behind the beam to make it look like shes fastened from behind.  That said, the plaque does add something, but it would then HAVE to be molded as a part of the beam (mostly from a molding cost perspective; every part added adds cost to the molds and later to the end product), and I think that defeats the purpose you are looking for.  I need more thought on it.

Or make the plaque part of the mermaid, and maybe offering some optional plaques as well - fish/shark, blank, skeletal mermaid in the same pose as the original.

 

Which can each be sold as a separate model - either metal or Bonesium, since it can be used for things other than the bar. (Including, say, the outside of the tavern, where it can be used as a sign.)

 

Avoiding the rope - since it could be used elsewhere.

 

The Auld Grump - not fond of the rope, truth be told.

[Skallabjorn]

2 hours ago, YronimosW said:

OK, I take that back:  if there's a wrong way to use Bones, some of those Kickstarter Comments folks will find it

"Do people want Bones that can be nasally inserted?"

[Corsair]

2 hours ago, YronimosW said:

OK, I take that back:  if there's a wrong way to use Bones, some of those Kickstarter Comments folks will find it

 

You can see why Dan went through all the trouble he did to make "fool-proof" tip sheets, and why a lot of folks worried that fool-proof was aiming just a bit too high....

 

 

My first Shift Commander told me "Always bet on stupidity" the older I get, the more I believe it.

[Doug Sundseth]

1 hour ago, idmonfish said:

 

Agreed - a large part of the huge growth in player base for at least 5E D&D is diversification from the classic "white nerdy geek guy" player base - and that new player base is probably going to be looking for representation. I can say as someone who sells minis online - judging by the names about 30% of my customers are female, which is far more than I anticipated. That said - it is the cliche models which by far sell the best.  

 

I'm pretty sure that Reaper's experience has been the same. Which is why we see the models that get so much complaint -- wizard with beard, male dwarf with axe, barbarian with greatsword, whatever. "But I already have that mini!" "You're not the market for this figure!"

 

 

1 hour ago, StarFyre said:

 

A lot of stuff is sufficiently generic.

 

if that was a problem, how can their red dragon have obvious head design from the 3e/4e/5e art?   or how they have mind flayers under a different name in their metal line, etc.  Hell - how about hill, frost, fire, cloud, storm giants?!?!?!

 

doesnt seem like it bothers them that much.   I really think its overstated the IP thing. as long as names, etc arent used.  of course i dont know but hasbro doesnt seem to be like GW in that regard or LOTS of companies, custom 3d print companies, etc all would have been shut down by now or needed to stop certain lines of figures (and this includes reaper)

 

Sanjay

 

"IP" is actually four different things (and I'm not a lawyer, so this isn't legal advice; if you rely upon it, you're a fool, talk to a lawyer for legal advice):

• Trade Secrets -- Don't much apply to miniatures, and only affect actually stealing information that you have proprietary knowledge of. Reverse engineering is fine.
• Patent -- Covers specific implementations of working things. Very hard to do with anything in gaming; the last I remember was WotC patenting "tapping", which was extremely specific and easy to circumvent without violating the patent. That patent has expired by now, btw.
• Trademark -- Covers things that would cause confusion in the marketplace. This usually means selling your [whatever] under a name that makes it likely that consumers will think it comes from somebody else. "Magick: the Assembling" would probably be a poor choice. Does not cover nominative use as long as it's not presented in such a way as to be confusing, which is why aftermarket car parts companies can advertise, "For use on 2012 - 2017 Studebaker Lark". But that doesn't mean you can use the Studebaker logo on the package, because that might cause a consumer to think that the part was from the actual manufacturer.
• Copyright -- Covers specific creative expressions, not ideas. Does not cover game rules, though it can cover creative elements in games. Covers both creating copies and creating "derivative works", and what is a "derivative work" is fact-specific (which means a judge or jury gets to decide and who knows what they might do). Requires significant creativity, so "cat person", which is a concept that has been around forever, and likely any other flavor of [animal]-person is going to be difficult to protect.See also giants, dragons, anything from mythology (anyone's mythology), and a wide variety of other things. What is significant depends on what a specific jury or judge says it is, btw. How close you have to get to (for instance) "beholder" before it goes from floating eyeball monster (almost certainly not protectable) to derivative of TSR's work is anyone's guess. There are many fair use exceptions to copyright, and they're just as hard to adjudicate.

Paying lawyers to chase down IP violations is expensive even if you're sure you could win. And if you lose, you might be on the hook for not just your lawyers but the other side's lawyers. Most companies look at the calculus and try to figure out whether it makes any sense to even bother to try. (Exception for trademark violations, which must be pursued or you can lose your trademark protection; this is not true for patent or copyright.)

[Skallabjorn]

10 minutes ago, Corsair said:

You can see why Dan went through all the trouble he did to make "fool-proof" tip sheets, and why a lot of folks worried that fool-proof was aiming just a bit too high....

 

As soon as you make something idiot proof, the universe immediately provides a bigger and better idiot.