funded Reaper Bones 5: Enthusiasm and Commentary thread

[jadeite]

This makes me kind of glad I didn't up my 1$ pledge. STL KS are just more convenient these days. Now, if Bones VI would include STL files ...

[Guyra]

5 minutes ago, Nunae said:

I also assume temporary admission (my fear about paying VAT twice was if we were to pay VAT in the PM and then still get stuff shipped through the UK, which hasn't happend). But even with that, these are the two options in comparison:

 

A) The seller charges VAT/fees upfront and solves the import paperwork for you. We pay something like 20% (Bones IV rate) on top of the usual item prices, but customs will let our packages slide right trough.

B) We handle fees on our own. That's the gamble part that highly depends on your country. In Germany, I'll pay 19% taxes for any item I buy + x% for the type of item (like clothes, toys, alcohol, ...) + y% for country of origin of such items + handling fees + service fees to the carrier. I say gamble bc the customs agent might decide that my Reaper Bones are toys (4,5%) or something else with a higher cost associated. I actually had this discussion with a customs agent when I picked up my Darkswords Kickstarter. And that assumes that they're fine with the declared value and this being a "private" order (in some cases the huge boxes and hundreds of plastic figures might lead to questions). Some fees are waived depending on country on smaller orders, so people might have ordered less to keep under those values.

Added to those fees the customs agencies want (and would have gotten in any case!) most carriers also charge you extra these days for dealing with customs. This might be a flat rate (like 6 Euro) or also percentage based. Problem with this is, the moment the carrier is at your door it's too late to say "I don't want this service! I'd prefer to pick up my package myself!" so you have to pre-register with each carrier (at least in Germany) for them to leave the package at the customs office and not give you this "service". 

 

Yeah, exactly this. So it's basically business as usual.

 

I think perhaps some of the misunderstanding comes from that people thought they'd not have to pay anything because it ships from the UK. But they didn't take into account that it's originally shipped from China, and then they're not paying any fees at all for when it gets to the UK(unless they live in the UK, whereas they paid that through the Pledge Manager).

 

4 minutes ago, jadeite said:

This makes me kind of glad I didn't up my 1$ pledge. STL KS are just more convenient these days. Now, if Bones VI would include STL files ...

 

Again, it seems people are simply misunderstanding, thinking that they have to pay double. But it's actually working just like every other international order.

[Glitterwolf]

5 minutes ago, Guyra said:

 

Again, it seems people are simply misunderstanding, thinking that they have to pay double. But it's actually working just like every other international order.

 

Last time with Bones III, it was shipped from USA to the Netherlands for me.

I know what percentage I paid for Customs/Fees.

 

As it is now I will look at what I need to pay when it arrives.

I really hope you're right but from what I've seen so far post-Brexit it isn't promising.

Will let you know if I'm wrong about it or if I do need to pay more.

 

So, waiting till it arrives, calculate if things are worse or not.

 

[Guyra]

8 minutes ago, Glitterwolf said:

 

Last time with Bones III, it was shipped from USA to the Netherlands for me.

I know what percentage I paid for Customs/Fees.

 

As it is now I will look at what I need to pay when it arrives.

I really hope you're right but from what I've seen so far post-Brexit it isn't promising.

Will let you know if I'm wrong about it or if I do need to pay more.

 

So, waiting till it arrives, calculate if things are worse or not.

 

 

Absolutely. I mean, I'm not Reaper, so I can't say anything for sure. But also consider this: The newest update says VAT has been paid for all UK orders, and that with all other European orders the backers will have to pay any customs duties, etc. But if VAT and customs for the UK would have to be paid, Reaper would've had to do that already. And then they'd have to bill you somehow. Or the UK customs would have to bill you, someone not in their own country. Consider what a logistical nightmare that would've been, in addition to the UK customs having absolutely no way to enforce your payment either. ;)

[Guyra]

Again, would love for Jon or anyone at Reaper actually comment on this - or better yet, release a new update with this information.

 

I'm not Reaper, so I'm just making assumptions. (Though not using Temporary Admission would seem extremely unlikely.)

 

Looking in the KS update comments, a lot more people are thinking they'll have to pay double. Reaper, you need to release some more info here!

[Guyra]

Also, to clarify: Any customs office will always bill the recipient of what is imported. For the Reaper shipment to UK, Reaper is the recipient. The reason Reaper collected VAT from UK backers during the KS/PM is because they needed that money to pay the customs office themselves - they can't say, "here's a list of recipients in your country that you need to get to pay you this money instead of us".

 

What they can do, however, is say, "X% of this shipment is not supposed to stay here, so we will pay VAT for Y%. The rest will be shipped out of your country within the time we're allowed to keep it here tax free". This is called "Temporary Admission". Then they'll ship it out, and as it arrives in other European countries, their standard import fees and VAT rules will apply, as normal, and based on the value that Reaper sets on the package. Which will be exactly the total of what you paid in the KS/PM.

 

You won't have to pay extra shipping either, because the shipping you paid during the KS/PM is to pay for the shipping from the UK to you.

The UK customs office, as far as I know, has no way to enforce payment from people living in other countries(and I also assume they legally can't). Maybe they had when they were part of the EU, for the other countries in the EU, but they aren't any longer.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Guyra

[Cicciopiu]

I will try (with my poor English) to explicate the situation were I live (I can't speak for other country cause I don't know the situation there).

First scenario, shipping from a EU country:
the shipment arrive in my country, the customs agent look at the receipt, scans the package etc. apply VAT and manipulation (21% + 13€); that's is. I just have to pay 118€ when I will receive the package.

Actual scenario, shipping outside of EU (UK in this case: package arrive at the customs, the agent look at it, if the paper are not perfect they will block the shipment, asking me to find an external Agent (that will charge me for the work) or to fill the paper for myself (ahahahah...). After that, if they believe me, they will charge me VAT, plus manipulation, plus Import fees; it depends where the shipment comes from: if in the papers result it is originated from China they will add another 12% (to the total, order + shipment) and will add VAT (to the total, order + shipment + fees); also they will charge me manipulation (before VAT) and will make me pay for another shipment (from the customs, to where I live) cause the shipment was blocked and they will make another route.
So, in my case: i've paid
500€
calculate 12%= 60€
add manipulation = 13€
add another shipment = 36€ (cause is more than 1Kg);
total is 109
now add VAT on the total (order + taxes) 21% of 609€= 127,89€;
109 + 127,89 = 236,89€

This is exactly twice the amount I will pay if they will ship it from EU and this is 47,378% of the original order.

[Guyra]

13 minutes ago, Cicciopiu said:

I will try (with my poor English) to explicate the situation were I live (I can't speak for other country cause I don't know the situation there).

First scenario, shipping from a EU country:
the shipment arrive in my country, the customs agent look at the receipt, scans the package etc. apply VAT and manipulation (21% + 13€); that's is. I just have to pay 118€ when I will receive the package.

Actual scenario, shipping outside of EU (UK in this case: package arrive at the customs, the agent look at it, if the paper are not perfect they will block the shipment, asking me to find an external Agent (that will charge me for the work) or to fill the paper for myself (ahahahah...). After that, if they believe me, they will charge me VAT, plus manipulation, plus Import fees; it depends where the shipment comes from: if in the papers result it is originated from China they will add another 12% (to the total, order + shipment) and will add VAT (to the total, order + shipment + fees); also they will charge me manipulation (before VAT) and will make me pay for another shipment (from the customs, to where I live) cause the shipment was blocked and they will make another route.
So, in my case: i've paid
500€
calculate 12%= 60€
add manipulation = 13€
add another shipment = 36€ (cause is more than 1Kg);
total is 109
now add VAT on the total (order + taxes) 21% of 609€= 127,89€;
109 + 127,89 = 236,89€

This is exactly twice the amount I will pay if they will ship it from EU and this is 47,378% of the original order.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. :) So that's the standard for your country? If so, I guess very few people in Spain order stuff internationally(non EU).

 

I'm sorry you live in a country with such crazy customs rules.

[Sylverthorne]

3 hours ago, Guyra said:

Again, would love for Jon or anyone at Reaper actually comment on this - or better yet, release a new update with this information.

 

I'm not Reaper, so I'm just making assumptions. (Though not using Temporary Admission would seem extremely unlikely.)

 

Looking in the KS update comments, a lot more people are thinking they'll have to pay double. Reaper, you need to release some more info here!

 

So, uh. @Reaper_Jon?

 

[Cicciopiu]

1 hour ago, Guyra said:

So that's the standard for your country? If so, I guess very few people in Spain order stuff internationally(non EU).

We makes orders, simply we try to stay under 150€ and spare those troubles.
Also I live in Canary Island, that is a NO VAT zone, so I'll have to do another type of paper so I can spare around 14% of VAT (but I have to pay an agent for it or do the papers by myself [ahahahahahah]).
Last but not least, if the package is very big (like would be in this case) they probably wont believe this is for personal use... let me no think about it cause that would be a nightmare of papers  

[Guyra]

12 minutes ago, Cicciopiu said:

We makes orders, simply we try to stay under 150€ and spare those troubles.
Also I live in Canary Island, that is a NO VAT zone, so I'll have to do another type of paper so I can spare around 14% of VAT (but I have to pay an agent for it or do the papers by myself [ahahahahahah]).
Last but not least, if the package is very big (like would be in this case) they probably wont believe this is for personal use... let me no think about it cause that would be a nightmare of papers  

 

That just sounds absolutely mental to me. Gotta say, in your case I have full understanding for that you're unhappy with the lack of an EU hub. Again, I really think Reaper should've been communicating the news about that not happening much more clearly(through a KS update, not just mention it on a stream).

Really hoping your country gets a reform of their customs system in the future, because what you're describing is a trainwreck. I can't imagine that system's good for trade.

[lexomatic]

Fyi, I'm assuming manipulation here is handling fees.

[Nunae]

8 hours ago, Guyra said:

Yeah, exactly this. So it's basically business as usual.

Well, option A would still be preferable to me (and many other backers, apparently), since it takes handling fees for the agents and package carriers wouldn't have to be paid in that case. We'd also know exactly how much each item will set us back for. 

If the individual customs agent sees the items as toys or some sort of collectable could also make quite the difference (4,5 to 7% I think, plus 19% VAT). Also, the fear of this being labeled as a commercial order is real for many backers, not just Spanish ones. You're not allowed to just sneak commercial orders in through the private postage system, so we might have to explain ourselves (happend in the past to my boyfriend who ordered multiple T-shirts from the US). Having a giant box filled with tons of plastic figures isn't that common, and I even understand people thinking "there is no way she needs all of these and wants to store them in her home". 

[Cicciopiu]

4 hours ago, lexomatic said:

Fyi, I'm assuming manipulation here is handling fees.

Yes, sorry, as I wrote, my English sux...  

[Guyra]

6 hours ago, Cicciopiu said:

Yes, sorry, as I wrote, my English sux...  

 

Nah, your English is pretty good! That was just a case of the translated word being technically correct, but not the one actually used in this situation. :D