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What's gone wrong with Dawn of Madness?


odinsgrandson
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I couldn't find a topic for Dawn of Madness- which seems odd for such a high profile Kickstarter with some cool looking miniatures renders.

I had a look at the Dawn of Madness Kickstarter when it first launched, and it seemed like it was doing rather well.

But I had a gander at its Kickstrack, and it looks like something isn't going right.

dailypledges.png


Big Kickstarters from known companies usually don't lose funding for many days in a row.  Do we know what went wrong here?  Has something happened to make people lose confidence?

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I'm thinking of jumping as well. Something about it really isn't rubbing me the right way. I rarely dig deep into the projects since I prefer to go in almost completely blind, so I've hardly read the updates, but some things I've seen that I don't like are:

  • The whole "black friday" sale. Not for what they did, but how they failed to just stick to their guns on one plan.
  • "This deal is so great, we're going to be LOSING money!", especially when the difference we're talking about was only like, what, $20 on a nearly $300 bundle?
  • English version being KS exclusive. Why is that even a thing? Why is it not just all exclusive?
  • The communication style in general...

The whole thing just feels very unprofessional and feeding off of FOMO while acting like "hey, I'm your buddy!" The only reason I'm even still considering it is that Deep Madness (which I've never played and know nothing of) was well received, so from that, I assume this guy is legit and good at what he does. But really starting to think that I have enough arriving in the next 2 years, and don't need yet another heavy, mini-infested game.

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Nothing's going wrong. It was a Timed EB campaign, which means all the unsure, fence-sitters jump in on day one. The red stuff is expected, as they leave the campaign. Were it not for the Timed EB's, you wouldn't see the money outflow, but you wouldn't see the high day-one inflow, either. It's sorta like how (4 - 2) and (1 + 1) equals (2), then noticing only the (-2).

 

DG also added a BF sale, so it *looks* like it kept making money. Then it had a discounted non-miniature "all-in" add-on that added funds. These moves were big and expensive. This kept the negative outflow from showing, but it wasn't sustainable (not like they wanted to keep doing them). Then it's common for money to flow out of these KS once the gameplay video is released, since some fence-sitters will realize the game is "not for them" and leave. (You sorta need gameplay videos to convince the others to stay.)

 

I disagree with Spodi, but not very much. :;): It's KSE because the game's too expensive to bring to retail. When distributors want their standard discount and it causes you to lose money on *each* copy, that happens (see: Conan).  If this game is like their previous one, they'll run another KS for a reprint. Communication was nuts, with nearly every KS marketing gimmick you could think of: social media campaign, BF sale, daily unlocks, etc. And they're only 70-some miniatures. Big ones. But not mini-infested enough to open up my holiday-assaulted wallet. :lol:

Edited by ced1106
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Honestly, I think a lot of it is down to the campaign ending just a week before Christmas.

 

On a more personal opinion level, the game just doesn't look that good. At the moment, it appears to be a fairly basic choose-your-own-adventure story with a rather boring resource management game bolted on.

(It didn't help that on both playthrough videos I watched they had very little story material to work with, not a great idea when you're trying to sell an immersive, story-driven game).

 

I'm still in though, because I like the minis (I'm not normally a Lovecraft/body-horror fan, but these ones really speak to me for some reason).

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Last day for this one, 9 hours or so to go

 

they carried on loosing money slowly, but actually pulled in a lot more backers ($1) so it looks like the enthusiasm is potentially there but the time of year was just wrong (plus some wanting to have more gameplay details, and that's still evolving)

 

I've enjoyed what they've done with Deep Madness so i'm in and look forward to seeing how this different style of game from them goes

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I have zero interest in the game...  I love the artwork, but there are so many bits...  The minis however...  I really wish there was a way to just get those (or better yet, the files for them...) without the rest...  Been watching it for a while and will likely stay at the $1 in hopes for a mini-only option.  

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- Ok, I saw the "English version is KS Exclusive" on the front page, but I had a hard time believing it.

Seriously, the English version is the one they aren't going to be producing?  While they're going to make extra copies of every other language they're printing in?

I understand the economics of making the whole game KS exclusive (or Kickstarter and Webstore Exclusive).  Incursion was the first game I heard say that retail wasn't a profitable option.  But aren't the costs of producing the game for retail in Spanish and German comparable to producing it in English?


 

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1 hour ago, odinsgrandson said:



Seriously, the English version is the one they aren't going to be producing?  While they're going to make extra copies of every other language they're printing in?
 

 

I don't think there will be any other language versions printed. pdfs might happen though. Also, foreign language editions are (potentially) licencable, so it actually makes sense to not limit oneself unnessecarily.

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53 minutes ago, Maledrakh said:

 

I don't think there will be any other language versions printed. pdfs might happen though. Also, foreign language editions are (potentially) licencable, so it actually makes sense to not limit oneself unnessecarily.

 


I thought they announced several language versions of the game.  Are they just "game in English plus a PDF?"  Did I miss that?

As for licensing the game in non-English languages... they could also license it to a publisher for a new English edition.  Probably neither will happen, but if they're just leaving the door open, why not leave the door open on the biggest market?

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Most likely it's a decision based on the sales numbers of their last game. If very few English copies sold at retail, likely due to most people who wanted one backing the kickstarter, but they had good enough sales in the other languages at retail it makes sense.

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I seem to be in error, please disregard my comment above. They say right at the top  "We offer English (KS-exclusive), German, French, and Spanish versions of Dawn of Madness. You can choose your language version in the Pledge Manager after the campaign ends". 

 

very strange to make just one language KS exclusive,

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I will point out that actual game rules are not copyrightable, at least in the US:

 

https://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.pdf

 

It's not quite as simple as just making a copy, though, since the literary and artistic elements of the rules book/file can be protectable. But it wouldn't be difficult to create a new book that specifically explained how to play their game, based on the KS exclusive English version.

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44 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

I will point out that actual game rules are not copyrightable, at least in the US:

 

https://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.pdf

 

It's not quite as simple as just making a copy, though, since the literary and artistic elements of the rules book/file can be protectable. But it wouldn't be difficult to create a new book that specifically explained how to play their game, based on the KS exclusive English version.

 

 

Would this be a simple game?  It struck me as the type of game that would be complex to translate (because it has a lot of narration and cards, etc).

I've played games that translate very easily.  One didn't even bother to have different versions of the game- they just put five different language rulebooks in the box (they were short rulebooks).

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1 minute ago, odinsgrandson said:

 

 

Would this be a simple game?  It struck me as the type of game that would be complex to translate (because it has a lot of narration and cards, etc).

I've played games that translate very easily.  One didn't even bother to have different versions of the game- they just put five different language rulebooks in the box (they were short rulebooks).

 

No idea at all. But then if were to try this (I have no desire to), I'd start with the English version and just rewrite it without any fluff.

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