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Okay, Day 2 update: This went through A LOT of iteration. The main issues that weren't working were that we wanted the bent leg to feel like it was out and raised like she was showing off the leg

Sorry I didn't get around to posting the final render of this last lady of the evening.   I wanted to talk a little bit about why this last figure took so long and demystify the work

Hey guys! Okay, so I wrapped up this Orc Doxie today. When all the big construction decisions and head are already finalized the only thing left to do is render. This is a time consuming process but a

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1 hour ago, Rainbow Sculptor said:

The design for the knife had to be simplified and enlarged pretty significantly because at scale it's already going to be difficult to paint. Weapons in particular always look ridiculously bad on screen when it looks right printed. It's something I've fought and had to learn the hard way. Swords and staffs look like giant telephone poles and delicate daggers look like massive butcher knives but when it comes out the other side it all looks right. 

It's not just weapons - if I wasn't already aware of the scaling issue, I'd be complaining to you about her feet. In the render, they look ridiculously over sized,  but I've come to trust your abilities enough to know that they'll look right on the physical model (or that Ron will have you fix them if it turns out they don't).

She looks great - I believe I may have plans for her already. 

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On 1/14/2020 at 8:33 AM, TaleSpinner said:

Consider raising her eyebrow as if she's asking an unspoken question.  First, it fits the character and second it is not a gesture you see in children much since they really don't master the fine control of the facial muscles to raise only one eyebrow until they are at least teens.

 

Really?  My toddler copies me and raises a single eyebrow just like I do.  I'll have to pay attention to see how often he does it, now, and if it's something he seems to be consciously doing, or not.

 

I can also do the ring finger lift others mentioned (but one of the languages of my household is American Sign Language, so I tend to have some extra digital dexterity).

 

Okay, on to the topic at hand.  Fabulous thread Rainbow Sculptor!  I love this type of work process run down.  Your discussion of the halfling's head and face immediately brought to mind the Races chapter of the 3rd edition D&D Player's Handbooks, which have sketches displaying these sorts of differences between the fantasy races and humans.  Their halflings even tend toward the same squat head shape.

 

613517689_ScreenShot2020-01-18at2_26_18AM.png.228621eefd7a130d4f469879ed690e1e.png493553032_ScreenShot2020-01-18at2_27_13AM.png.a52b246a9a5067feab6492d67b4a4a2b.png

804315854_ScreenShot2020-01-18at2_26_41AM.png.e86ff579fb5e50894e7f6e7ab3c40382.png

 

Can't wait to see what you sculpt up next.

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5 hours ago, ksbsnowowl said:

 

Really?  My toddler copies me and raises a single eyebrow just like I do.  I'll have to pay attention to see how often he does it, now, and if it's something he seems to be consciously doing, or not.

 

I can also do the ring finger lift others mentioned (but one of the languages of my household is American Sign Language, so I tend to have some extra digital dexterity).

 

Okay, on to the topic at hand.  Fabulous thread Rainbow Sculptor!  I love this type of work process run down.  Your discussion of the halfling's head and face immediately brought to mind the Races chapter of the 3rd edition D&D Player's Handbooks, which have sketches displaying these sorts of differences between the fantasy races and humans.  Their halflings even tend toward the same squat head shape.

 

613517689_ScreenShot2020-01-18at2_26_18AM.png.228621eefd7a130d4f469879ed690e1e.png493553032_ScreenShot2020-01-18at2_27_13AM.png.a52b246a9a5067feab6492d67b4a4a2b.png

804315854_ScreenShot2020-01-18at2_26_41AM.png.e86ff579fb5e50894e7f6e7ab3c40382.png

 

Can't wait to see what you sculpt up next.

That's really cool! I haven't seen that before but I'm glad that I accidentally stayed true to lore lol

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Sorry for not updating guys, I was getting a little stuck and wanted to problem solve before I posted. I realized that all the problems are part of the fun so I'm sharing now even though I haven't solved it yet haha!

So here is the concept art for the Human Doxie Madame

1109339146_BrinewindDoxies_1of2.thumb.jpg.f81312165106b4ba14755337de06c210.jpg by Izzy "Talin" Collier

You've seen the process so far, so i will try to avoid repeating myself too much. I opened up my ZSphere rig for "sexy female" and adjusted the proportions to suit the art/character. Posed and blocked in the major shapes. 

594560619_HumanDoxieWIP1.JPG.54d9c5c7e64cfd378c0cf378c3233a24.JPG

This was NOT working at all. There was no good flow, the attitude wasn't coming through, I was frustrated. 

Day 2: I talked some things through with Ron and we went over some extra reference images for posing (Artist: J.Scott Campbell)

82554915_148850443232111_9188869327615426560_n.thumb.png.d094431ff6d5e7c8867fe56f68bf56d1.png82509558_181125922960281_6385500828706275328_n.thumb.png.f653d61d76800e2b1894bebe9fe8be1d.png

I realized I wasn't getting enough of a sweep to the extended leg to give the graceful flow I was wanting. Of course adjusting the pose as much as it needed really meant taking it back to the beginning and reposing the original rig. There needed to be a more subtle nuance to the rib cage and shoulder posing and the arms weren't at a good angle to aid the eye flow of the piece. So, I put off restarting until I could get a face done I was happy with. A lot of times my motivation for a character comes with designing the face and really defining their personality with the expression. It always seems to be downhill from there. So I decided to get the attitude down first in the face and sculpt the body to match. 

1271907735_MadameHead.JPG.b3f1f3f165ac1a13184370661bc3e4bb.JPG

I was happy with this one. She looked sexy with only one eye to work with and definitely human in comparison to the other girls. With that approved I went back and reposed the ZSpheres, resculpted the anatomy, and attached the head. 

87011338_HumanDoxieWIP2.JPG.84af57f4692372389d2c925e18b5bf4f.JPG

The pose was working much better (which was the goal) but she has this illusion of chicken legs happening in the silhouette. Since this is what the original art dictated, costume wise, I needed to discuss this with Ron and decide what (if any) changes he wanted to make to help. We discussed some potential solutions being taller Victorian style of boots, bulking up the legs into a more volleyball style body build, or rethinking the design of the skirts. At this stage it's up to me to do some experimentation and creative problem solving to see how I can make this work and still stay as true as possible to the concept art. I'll update you guys with what I figure out!

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1 hour ago, Rainbow Sculptor said:

At this stage it's up to me to do some experimentation and creative problem solving to see how I can make this work and still stay as true as possible to the concept art.

 

May I suggest you do an image search for saloon girls.

Not for the costume styles obviously, but for any inspiration their stances and postures might provide you with.

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Thanks for sharing your process with us.

 

If it isn't too late -- how about these refinements to the pose?:

 

- Push out her right hip, shifting her weight so it is all (or nearly all) on her right leg/foot.  Her left leg is free to take a step (or even to kick an unruly patron?!).  Maybe her left knee is bent forward and her left heel is lifted off the ground a little?

I brought the art and Zbrush rough into Photoshop, and drew a vertical line through each one's right heel, mainly to compare where the waist and head are.

I know, we don't just translate the angles and proportions from a sketch directly to a miniature, but here's what the comparison showed me:

DoxyMadame_PoseStudyDKS.jpg.01a68edc43bf1690a32a7846f593721a.jpg

Can you get the miniature's head positioned over her right foot?

 

- Maybe move the knees down on the legs a little?  Longer legs do make a female figure look more elegant ... but it looks like her shins (knee to ankle) are even longer than her thighbones (knee to hip), and maybe that's giving you the "chicken leg" impression.  (Compare my fey queen Nyrissa: Derek's Nyrissa show-off post.  She's not human, and she stands about 7 feet tall in scale but most of the extra height is in her lower legs, deer-like.)

 

 

(Yes, I'm trying to rearrange my schedule and priorities so I can get back to sculpting.  Thanks for the chance to analyze and critique, but I need to sculpt again!...)

 

Derek

 

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6 hours ago, dks said:

Thanks for sharing your process with us.

 

If it isn't too late -- how about these refinements to the pose?:

 

- Push out her right hip, shifting her weight so it is all (or nearly all) on her right leg/foot.  Her left leg is free to take a step (or even to kick an unruly patron?!).  Maybe her left knee is bent forward and her left heel is lifted off the ground a little?

I brought the art and Zbrush rough into Photoshop, and drew a vertical line through each one's right heel, mainly to compare where the waist and head are.

I know, we don't just translate the angles and proportions from a sketch directly to a miniature, but here's what the comparison showed me:

DoxyMadame_PoseStudyDKS.jpg.01a68edc43bf1690a32a7846f593721a.jpg

Can you get the miniature's head positioned over her right foot?

 

- Maybe move the knees down on the legs a little?  Longer legs do make a female figure look more elegant ... but it looks like her shins (knee to ankle) are even longer than her thighbones (knee to hip), and maybe that's giving you the "chicken leg" impression.  (Compare my fey queen Nyrissa: Derek's Nyrissa show-off post.  She's not human, and she stands about 7 feet tall in scale but most of the extra height is in her lower legs, deer-like.)

 

 

(Yes, I'm trying to rearrange my schedule and priorities so I can get back to sculpting.  Thanks for the chance to analyze and critique, but I need to sculpt again!...)

 

Derek

 

 

That's a great point. I'm missing that big C arc to the pose as a whole. Really appreciate you taking the time, I'll see what I can do. 
Love that fey queen, sculpt sculpt sculpt!! haha

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Clearly I wasn't thinking right last night.  Today it is obvious to me that I used the image of the obsolete Zbrush pose by mistake, instead of the new one.

Sorry.  I hope I'm helping in some way.

Derek

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14 hours ago, dks said:

Clearly I wasn't thinking right last night.  Today it is obvious to me that I used the image of the obsolete Zbrush pose by mistake, instead of the new one.

Sorry.  I hope I'm helping in some way.

Derek

1051852529_DerickSuggestedChanges.JPG.986fc58b2ce13759bce66859c598cf64.JPG

Very helpful! I think this silhouette is working a lot better. I still bulked up the legs pretty substantially from what I would normally do (and might do that some more) and I think the knees probably still need to come down a little but overall this is not looking nearly as chicken-like to me. 

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I think you have fixed much of what seemed off with her. It still seems to me as though her calves are larger than her thighs which makes her legs still seem weird looking. The bulge on the back of her right calf is odd looking and draws the eye. Please take this as constructive criticism and not an insult. I adore your sculpts!

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After adjusting the pose and resculpting the anatomy I've been rendering out the rest of the cloth/costuming. Ron and I debated having taller victorian style boots to compensate for the silhouette. We tried a rough version but ultimately agreed it wasn't working and we would likely just go with the original shorter shoes.

 

1620198262_BootQuestion.JPG.da0a1de32b02833b1bfbc8e6926e6b25.JPG

So, here's where we ended today. Still have some major elements to put in. Hands, hair, shoes, and smaller accessories/detailing. Hopefully she'll be finished up soon!

1146771448_HumanDoxieWIP3.JPG.4aef26a65c05e8d2c96c695aef0baac3.JPG

 

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