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Having a Healthy Convention Season


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9 hours ago, Highlander said:

 

The second decision is, if ReaperCon is not cancelled, whether I will decide to come.  I have to consider a whole bunch of people from all over the country congregating in close quarters, sitting side by side in classes, constantly mixing and moving and exchanging exhalations.  Frankly, some attendees will not have taken precautions to keep themselves healthy, some will have flown in and transited airports, some might be carriers without knowing it.  It will be a tough decision.

 

 

You're going to encounter this every year at every large convention, concert or event for the rest of your life.  At least two variations of con crud were floating around last year, not for the first time.  The con continues to get larger.  R'con is a friendly gathering, with lots of people sharing paint, tools, and hugs.  It's going to happen. 

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5 hours ago, TGP said:

 

Aircraft have something pretty close to that already.  :huh:

 

The actual problem is: (as Buglips would put it) the stanky hoomans wedged together like sardines. 

 

Somewhere else on this forum I linked an article that explained aircraft ECS (Environmental Control Systems).

 

Fully one half of the air entering the cabin from the air registers is sterile air.  Air, at altitude is naturally sterile.  Constant UV light exposure and extreme temps see to that. The fresh air brought is thin and has to be sent through a compressor. Boyle’s Law: compression causes heating. The already sterile air gets cooked. Next it has to be cycled through a heat exchanger to cool it down, then it mixes with air that is already aboard and is dumped into the cabin. 

 

The problem is not the ECS it is the aircraft seating. If ICU patients were in bunks as close together as people are seated in planes they’d get sick with airborne diseases and respiratory problems too. 

And you've hit the nail on the head.

Combine 50% recirculated air with the unreasonably close spacing for extended periods of time and you need faster air changes, to the point where there needs to be a palpable breeze in the circulated air, all of which requires larger equipment and more power consumption to make it effective.

We may be approaching the point where there needs to be a requirement for all passengers to wear a full face mask breathing apparatus for public health reasons.

Frequent flyers can carry their own custom kit which plugs into the breathing air system through standard connectors.  The casual flyer will need to rent fitted equipment ahead of time and bring their rental kit with them.  No flight kit, no boarding.

Given the current business model of the commercial airline industry there has to be at least 90% of the current seating as the normal seating plot.

without those "crowded" seating conditions there isn't enough revenue to cover costs at current pricing.  If you try to increase pricing there is a certain price sensitive segment of people who will elect not to fly.

We may actually be approaching the point where intermediate distance [300 to 1000 mile] passenger train travel becomes profitable once again., simply because there will be enough people who won't fly for health/sanitation reasons.

GEM

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8 hours ago, Green Eyed Monster said:

We may be approaching the point where there needs to be a requirement for all passengers to wear a full face mask breathing apparatus for public health reasons.

Frequent flyers can carry their own custom kit which plugs into the breathing air system through standard connectors.

As fascinating as this concept is: the existing oxygen systems that the drop-down masks are attached to can’t operate for the full duration of the flight.  That is the only existing system that could be plugged into.

 

They are not going to reengineer their planes** and install entirely new ECS and O2 systems. Not when there is a much cheaper solution. 

 

There is a test now that delivers results in 15-20 minutes. An ongoing contract with Abbot Labs (Or Merck or whoever) for test kits and a SOP of testing every passenger before every flight would be a more elegant solution. 

 

It would cost way way less than retrofitting each airline’s fleet of planes. And the cost of the kit could be added to the price of the ticket. 

 

**Retro-fitting the seating is a more doable thing. It is still expensive but airlines are already setup to do that. It would not hurt my feelings a bit if aircraft interiors redesigned with seats and rows spaced much further apart. That would mean doubling ticket prices if the number of passengers per plane was halved. 

 

But that might be a good idea. 

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15 hours ago, TGP said:

 

Aircraft have something pretty close to that already.  :huh:

 

The actual problem is: (as Buglips would put it) the stanky hoomans wedged together like sardines. 

 

Somewhere else on this forum I linked an article that explained aircraft ECS (Environmental Control Systems).

 

Fully one half of the air entering the cabin from the air registers is sterile air.  Air, at altitude is naturally sterile.  Constant UV light exposure and extreme temps see to that. The fresh air brought is thin and has to be sent through a compressor. Boyle’s Law: compression causes heating. The already sterile air gets cooked. Next it has to be cycled through a heat exchanger to cool it down, then it mixes with air that is already aboard and is dumped into the cabin. 

 

The problem is not the ECS it is the aircraft seating. If ICU patients were in bunks as close together as people are seated in planes they’d get sick with airborne diseases and respiratory problems too. 

[Leans back in chair, reminiscing]

 

Aaah, the good old days when there were smoking and non-smoking sections in airplanes. Except if you're a non-smoker, which I am. Then it was horrible.

 

Even remembering and living through what was a "normal thing" is pretty incredulous.

 

13 hours ago, Inarah said:

 

You're going to encounter this every year at every large convention, concert or event for the rest of your life.  At least two variations of con crud were floating around last year, not for the first time.  The con continues to get larger.  R'con is a friendly gathering, with lots of people sharing paint, tools, and hugs.  It's going to happen. 

No matter how careful everyone is, it only takes one sick person carrying anything, who may even be asymptomatic and not even aware, to spread any bug.

 

It has always been one of the downsides social activities. Be it conventions, sporting events, concerts, classrooms, weddings, funerals... you name it.

 

But for the vast majority of time, it's at an acceptable risk level.

Edited by Cranky Dog
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1 hour ago, TGP said:

There is a test now that delivers results in 15-20 minutes. An ongoing contract with Abbot Labs (Or Merck or whoever) for test kits and a SOP of testing every passenger before every flight would be a more elegant solution. 

Totally not arguing any of this. I'm not an aerospace anything, but I am a healthcare provider. And I am giggling imagining flu-swabbing (it's virtually the same swab, viral medium, blah blah)every person getting on every plane. It's pretty uncomfortable, and I would imagine it would need to be done before you drop off your luggage at the sky-cap or check in with your ticket to prevent losing stuff and the ensuing kerfuffles.

I think this is definitely going to change many industries, IF it remains a problem. SARS and MERS never came back. We can cross our fingers and wait for the future. I'm all for theorycrafting, but I think almost anything can be discounted at this point. 

We all agree that we should be careful, we all agree that we're interested in keeping each other safe. I think that's the important piece.

And I still have my tickets and hotel room booked, and I'm crossing everything I have that we can all get together this year. 

:wub:

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20 hours ago, Inarah said:

 

You're going to encounter this every year at every large convention, concert or event for the rest of your life.  At least two variations of con crud were floating around last year, not for the first time.  The con continues to get larger.  R'con is a friendly gathering, with lots of people sharing paint, tools, and hugs.  It's going to happen. 

 

 But it won't happen to me if I'm not there.

 

Con crud is one thing; Wuhan virus is another.  The issue here is risk versus reward.  ReaperCon is high reward; Wuhan is very high risk -- at the moment.  It may not be by mid-August, but we won't know until mid-August.

Edited by Highlander
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8 hours ago, TGP said:

As fascinating as this concept is: the existing oxygen systems that the drop-down masks are attached to can’t operate for the full duration of the flight.  That is the only existing system that could be plugged into.

 

They are not going to reengineer their planes** and install entirely new ECS and O2 systems. Not when there is a much cheaper solution. 

 

There is a test now that delivers results in 15-20 minutes. An ongoing contract with Abbot Labs (Or Merck or whoever) for test kits and a SOP of testing every passenger before every flight would be a more elegant solution. 

 

It would cost way way less than retrofitting each airline’s fleet of planes. And the cost of the kit could be added to the price of the ticket. 

 

**Retro-fitting the seating is a more doable thing. It is still expensive but airlines are already setup to do that. It would not hurt my feelings a bit if aircraft interiors redesigned with seats and rows spaced much further apart. That would mean doubling ticket prices if the number of passengers per plane was halved. 

 

But that might be a good idea. 

Unfortunately, until the whole world embraces the Sanitation Standards of Civilized Nations there is going to be an ongoing risk of yet another virus as virulent and destructive as the C19 virus.  Every time one of these gets loose the airline industry is going to take yet another hit, not just short term but long term in its effects.

There will come a point where it's re-engineer the aircraft to accommodate the accumulated public fear or downsize the entire industry dramatically.

I'm all in favor of a "pre-flight physical" in the form of a temperature check and possibly a blood prick.  It's a step up in Sanitation practices that is actually long overdue.  But it won't catch the ones who are already incubating a virus that hasn't gone "hot" yet but might go off during a flight.

GEM

Edited by Green Eyed Monster
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Curious if the airlines (SW for me, here) will try & make up losses by raising ticket costs later this year. Currently a RT ticket would cost me around 360. That is about what I'd normally pay for my RCon trip ticket.

 

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5 hours ago, Highlander said:

If more ES rooms become available, then there will be fewer attending ReapeCon.  I don't know what Reaper's budget estimates are, but few attendees means less income.  And less income might impact future ReaperCons.

 

Not necessarily; remember, there was a Sports Event of some kind happening on the same weekend. Hotel was booked out entirely because of that.

So, rooms coming available might not mean less Reapercon attendees.

 

We were planning to drive. Not sure how that's going to work out, but.. eh. We'll see. 

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And honestly, I don't know what the cost for RC is but given how much it's grown over the last few years I'm hoping they haven't pushed themselves on the budget this year. It could loose half  of the atendees fort his year and still only be down to where it was two years ago.

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