Bones 5 dragon sizing vs Wizkids (updated pics of Arveiaturace in todays reply, with scale vs some bones/gw, etc ))

[StarFyre]

On 8/7/2020 at 6:04 PM, ksbsnowowl said:

The bases are 3", but the dragons are vastly oversized for that 3" base.  They are easily Gargantuan compared to previous offerings by other companies.  I posed a photoshop comparison with the Huge Red Dragon figure from the Wrath of Ashardalon game a month or two ago.  Trust me, the dragons are bigger than Huge.

 

Here, I hunted down the pic again.  Both of these Red Dragons are on 3" bases, FYI.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is that true though?  why wouldnt it be huge if the base determines that?

 

Wizkids, who does the official D&D models (in line with the models from GF9 that are also official) have a line of dragons coming, starting in dec/jan, that they said are their new gargantuan dragons and described them as properly sized or something .    

Here's a pic of the first, the white:

 

https://www.enworld.org/attachments/f53d5c97-bd1f-4dc4-b29c-ba25bced7bcd-jpeg.123086/

 

Maker: Wizkids / Wizards of the Coast

Brand: Icons of the Realms

Set: Gargantuan White Dragon, Arveiaturace

Date Released: Jan 2021

 

really like the greek set. so nice!!

 

regards,

Sanjay

Edited February 9, 2021 by StarFyre

[Sirithiliel]

Oh I like the pose on that dragon. Maybe one I will get.

[Nunae]

I like that those dragons fit a 3 inch base, even though they seem a bit big for it. Means I can use them as adult or ancient dragons as I see fit. Adult dragons are probably going to see more game time, but for the bigger ones I can just find a nifty base solution.

I usually oversell the size of my dragons in RP anyway, so I'm okay with super big adult dragons.

[ksbsnowowl]

5 hours ago, StarFyre said:

 

is that true though?  why wouldnt it be huge if the base determines that?

 

Not even WizKids follows the rules of base diameter determines game rules size. 
 

And Reaper sells 100mm black bases... which is my plan. 
 

Regardless of the base size on the model, the more important issue for me is the relative scale to other models. Kalanzar is noticeably and sufficiently larger than known Huge sculpts that he looks right as a gargantuan. 
 

I've seen and examined all the available photos of the new WizKids dragons coming out. They are purposely over sizing them compared to what they’ve produced over the last several years. There is an “Adult” White Dragon coming out in the fall which is on a 4” base that has a 3” ring painted on it, because it is supposed to be “Huge.” They are over-sizing the base for stability. I’ve done similar photoshop comparisons with the old Hasbro gargantuan white dragon, Icingdeath, and it is smaller in scale than Icingdeath. 
 

The “Gargantuan” white dragon they are releasing in December is MASSIVE, and doesn’t comport to any previous sense of scale in official D&D miniatures. It appears to be as big as the old Colossal Red Dragon (which was itself oversized, being on an 8” base, rather than a 6” base). But it’s also going to be $120, IIRC.

 

All that to say, Kalanzar and his ilk can easily be used as Huge or Gargantuan, depending on the end user’s desires, and the relative scale of their other miniatures. 

[haldir]

1 hour ago, ksbsnowowl said:

Not even WizKids follows the rules of base diameter determines game rules size. 
 

And Reaper sells 100mm black bases... which is my plan. 
 

Regardless of the base size on the model, the more important issue for me is the relative scale to other models. Kalanzar is noticeably and sufficiently larger than known Huge sculpts that he looks right as a gargantuan. 
 

I've seen and examined all the available photos of the new WizKids dragons coming out. They are purposely over sizing them compared to what they’ve produced over the last several years. There is an “Adult” White Dragon coming out in the fall which is on a 4” base that has a 3” ring painted on it, because it is supposed to be “Huge.” They are over-sizing the base for stability. I’ve done similar photoshop comparisons with the old Hasbro gargantuan white dragon, Icingdeath, and it is smaller in scale than Icingdeath. 
 

The “Gargantuan” white dragon they are releasing in December is MASSIVE, and doesn’t comport to any previous sense of scale in official D&D miniatures. It appears to be as big as the old Colossal Red Dragon (which was itself oversized, being on an 8” base, rather than a 6” base). But it’s also going to be $120, IIRC.

 

All that to say, Kalanzar and his ilk can easily be used as Huge or Gargantuan, depending on the end user’s desires, and the relative scale of their other miniatures. 

 

Similiar to the "young" dragons in the Nolzur's lineup. They are based on Huge bases for stability. I've always liked bigger dragons anyways, so bigger dragons are always nice. 

 

Thanks to everyone that has posted about those big dragons from Wizkids. I'll probably pre-order those through my shop.

 

Alt view of garg. white dragon:

 

Spoiler

 

[ksbsnowowl]

Thanks for finding and posting a pic. He’s a BIG boy. If I can swing it, I’ll get him, but I don’t plan to get the flying “Huge” adult white. I have Icingdeath, and I’d just use it as another Gargantuan White. 
 

The upcoming massive one you posted will work great as a colossal white (3rd ed allows for colossal whites in the Epic Level Handbook).

[Crowley]

Sometimes bigger isn't always better. I can't see ever wanting/needing a dragon that's THAT big. I'm happy with the size of the Reaper Bones V dragons, but they're as big as I want. Except for Ma'al of course.

[haldir]

The expressions of my players when plunk down a huge dragon is worth the cost of them. I don't use allot of dragons, thou I've used more with my games at the FLGS then I did in my previous years as a DM/GM.

 

 

[Sirithiliel]

$120? Never mind, I will pass lol. Not worth it for a cool pose

[ksbsnowowl]

Yeah, I ran the original 3.0 adventure path modules, and when we reached the climax two years ago, and I brought out that colossal red dragon to represent Ashardalon (who was a half-fiend great wyrm), my players’ reactions were worth the considerable cost. I’d hid the fact I’d bought it a year earlier, in preparation for that moment. 
 

I think these Bones 5 dragons fill a needed niche in the market (granted, Reaper has other, similarly representative dragon models). Yes, there are huge and gargantuan prepainted models, but they are always rare, and are very expensive to acquire. And these Bones 5 sculpts are generally pretty darn good. 

7 minutes ago, Sirithiliel said:

$120? Never mind, I will pass lol. Not worth it for a cool pose

 

The Huge/Gargantuan one next month is $60, IIRC. And keep in mind that the colossal red was $75, what? Thirteen years ago?  The fact they are doing something on a similar scale, and the price has only increased 60% in the intervening years is actually surprising. I would have expected it to be more.  

[Sirithiliel]

10 minutes ago, ksbsnowowl said:

 

The Huge/Gargantuan one next month is $60, IIRC. And keep in mind that the colossal red was $75, what? Thirteen years ago?  The fact they are doing something on a similar scale, and the price has only increased 60% in the intervening years is actually surprising. I would have expected it to be more.  

 

Indeed but on a limited hobby budget, something that expensive is a immediate no

 

$60 isn't as bad, hm

[Disciple of Sakura]

TBH, I wish the Bones 4 dragons actually fit into a 3" base. Sure, they stand on 3" bases, but they're clearly gargantuan dragons, not huge dragons. I have a full assortment of gargantuan and colossal dragons as Pathfinder assigns them, and all the Larges from my DDM days, but I lack Huge dragons for Red, White, and Blue dragons, and my Black hs a sorcerer riding him, so I was really hoping these dragons could pass as huges.

 

I'm currently hoping the dragons in the Core will work for huges comparable to the "Pathfinder Red" that I painted up as a green many years ago.

[PaganMegan]

6 hours ago, ksbsnowowl said:

Not even WizKids follows the rules of base diameter determines game rules size. 
 

And Reaper sells 100mm black bases... which is my plan. 
 

Regardless of the base size on the model, the more important issue for me is the relative scale to other models. Kalanzar is noticeably and sufficiently larger than known Huge sculpts that he looks right as a gargantuan. 
 

I've seen and examined all the available photos of the new WizKids dragons coming out. They are purposely over sizing them compared to what they’ve produced over the last several years. There is an “Adult” White Dragon coming out in the fall which is on a 4” base that has a 3” ring painted on it, because it is supposed to be “Huge.” They are over-sizing the base for stability. I’ve done similar photoshop comparisons with the old Hasbro gargantuan white dragon, Icingdeath, and it is smaller in scale than Icingdeath. 
 

The “Gargantuan” white dragon they are releasing in December is MASSIVE, and doesn’t comport to any previous sense of scale in official D&D miniatures. It appears to be as big as the old Colossal Red Dragon (which was itself oversized, being on an 8” base, rather than a 6” base). But it’s also going to be $120, IIRC.

 

All that to say, Kalanzar and his ilk can easily be used as Huge or Gargantuan, depending on the end user’s desires, and the relative scale of their other miniatures. 

Wizards had decided not to HAVE dragons bigger than Huge with later 4e.

 

I never understood why, the Gargantuan dragons they had prepainted for the tail end of 3e sold okay, and the Gargantuan Blue sold through several times.

 

Sometimes it almost seemed like they were TRYING to cripple their sales, in everything.

 

Rules, novels, and minis, if it made them money, they did something to make sure it wouldn't. Even their online support, when they drove their character generator into a tunnel painted on a rock. Hey, we're taking away offline use, but to make up for it we're taking away a lot of other features too!

 

WizKids, on the other hand... Thems some nice minis!

1 minute ago, Disciple of Sakura said:

TBH, I wish the Bones 4 dragons actually fit into a 3" base. Sure, they stand on 3" bases, but they're clearly gargantuan dragons, not huge dragons. I have a full assortment of gargantuan and colossal dragons as Pathfinder assigns them, and all the Larges from my DDM days, but I lack Huge dragons for Red, White, and Blue dragons, and my Black hs a sorcerer riding him, so I was really hoping these dragons could pass as huges.

 

I'm currently hoping the dragons in the Core will work for huges comparable to the "Pathfinder Red" that I painted up as a green many years ago.

Diagonal on square bases works fine for us.

 

We wargame, and square is our norm, in more ways than one!

 

I have been waiting to use that pun.

 

And I hate the 4e Huge Green with his pointy nose.

 

I see that Wizards has officially buried that look, and is pretending it never happened.

[strawhat]

 

7 hours ago, PaganMegan said:

And I hate the 4e Huge Green with his pointy nose.

 

I see that Wizards has officially buried that look, and is pretending it never happened.

 

Every time I sneeze, I get a panicked flashback..  I'm honestly not sure that should be purple, bu-ut...

[StarFyre]

16 hours ago, ksbsnowowl said:

The “Gargantuan” white dragon they are releasing in December is MASSIVE, and doesn’t comport to any previous sense of scale in official D&D miniatures. It appears to be as big as the old Colossal Red Dragon (which was itself oversized, being on an 8” base, rather than a 6” base). But it’s also going to be $120, IIRC.

 

hey, checked the wording in the D&D live video just now. I guess since 5e doesnt have colossal as a standard size category im told, these are meant to be the upper range of gargantuan maybe?

 

for 3e, maybe they would be at the start of colossal. in 2e, adults (2e dragons are much larger). I still use the 2e sizing, so i put a miniature on a larger cardboard board according to size i need and say "it looks kinda like that, but the players know the 'counter' its on is the size range).   

 

Back to wizkids, what the 2 folks presenting the massive white dragon said was, one of them asked the other a year or so ago that please make definitive dragons, so they decided to do this line of bigger ones. 

 

is the colossal red too big? IIRC, 3e dragons were in the 120-150 ft range for non epic dragons.  If you use the older standard GW bases, the 1 inch square base was basically a 5 ft square. 2 inch base (what they called large base) was 10 ft square equivalent.  So you're looking at 12 to 15 large GW bases long. the red is 14 inches tall, if it was out stretched out it would probably be around 24-26 inches i think due to the tail? so that would be about right. 

 

sadly, im having trouble estimating the size of the white. some pics have a d20 but for some reason it feels like its larger than my d20s.  not sure. this image im attaching has scale to a medium wizkids figure but i dont know the size of those so not sure.  I'm estimating 12-16 inches long somewhere. (if anyone can give a better range, it would be appreciated for a better estimate).  im already planning to strip it and basing it (initially it will be a prepaint but the post on FB indicates the wizkids CEO said unpainted ones may come after based on how they sell initially and demand, etc)

 

 

Like, how wide are those round bases for the prepaint figures? 0.75 inch diameter?  1 inch?

 

regards,

 

sanjay

Edited August 9, 2020 by StarFyre