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Valthorn_Illian

I got this weird cough...

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On 8/26/2020 at 6:52 PM, Valthorn_Illian said:

Hydroxychloroquin, Zpak, 50mg Zinc, cough syrup, and a full days worth if vitamins C and D.

Did your Docs explain what each component was for?

It sounds like they beg to differ with the FDA, CDC, and all the media echo chamber reporting against using Hydroxychloroquin.

 

 

On 8/25/2020 at 1:12 PM, Valthorn_Illian said:

and the runs from the drug cocktail.

That is the Z-pak having its way with your GI track.

 

 

6 hours ago, Valthorn_Illian said:
On 8/26/2020 at 7:27 PM, NebulousMissy said:

 

So basically the Velcro Cocktail. They're tossing everything in to see what sticks.

Less of a velcro approach since they've known for a while the cocktail works in the early stages.

Interesting.

 

 

On 8/26/2020 at 1:40 PM, Valthorn_Illian said:

Update: still coughing but my lungs don't feel weighted so big positive. Sinuses are still flowing like rivers and occasionally burn but that's normal for me and respiratory issues.

 

I hope you continue to improve. You didn't say (?) if you are being treated at home or in a Covid Ward. Hoping the first. Well done that you quit smoking.

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The mixture sounds like what the standard of care is (or at least, was) where I live.  Don't know if it's been changed (haven't talked with the medical professional for a couple months). Eastern Virginia Medical School also has this mix described in their Critical Care protocol.  For anyone interested, reading that document should provide answers to the "whys" for each piece of the mix.

 

 

Get well.  I'm sure you'll be back to hobbying soon. 

 

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14 hours ago, Valthorn_Illian said:

Less of a velcro approach since they've known for a while the cocktail works in the early stages.

 

2x 200mg tabs per day.

 

Ah, ok. Same dose I was given for autoimmune disease.  (which is essentially what you've got now)

 

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COVID-19 isn't an autoimmune disease though, is it? Mangles a proper immune response in some people, but I thought that had different causes.

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9 minutes ago, Cyradis said:

COVID-19 isn't an autoimmune disease though, is it? Mangles a proper immune response in some people, but I thought that had different causes.

 

The virus is not.  Many of the symptoms are identical, though. (Fatigue, Muscle or body aches, Headache, New loss of taste or smell, Sinus Congestion, Diarrhea, Trouble breathing, New confusion)  A mangled immune response IS autoimmune disease if it does not go away.  The cause of autoimmune disease is not known, but it is believed that viruses may be a trigger in some of them.   As horrible as this new virus is, I'm glad it is leading to broad, intense new research into the immune system. There will be long lasting results for many, not just covid patients. 

 

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I do agree about the research part - a heck of a lot of new knowledge will come from the mess.

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7 minutes ago, Citrine said:

Covid-19 is in a way also a blood clotting disease, a lot of the above symptoms could be from this complication.

 

https://www.sharp.com/health-news/covid-19-and-blood-clots.cfm

 

So the interesting question to me is how that relates to my low platelet count (non-clotting...) disorder.  Happily for most people (but unhappily for me), mine is a rare condition, so the research pool is small.

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I’m not a doctor, and my analogies are not the best, but . . . .

Spoiler

 

The biggest issue with this disease is that it causes your body to go into a “cytokine storm.”  In effect, your body says if a little inflammation is good, a lot is better.  This is also an issue with many autoimmune disorders.  In the storm sequence, the inflammation triggers inflammation which triggers . . . etc.  Your organs become so damaged that they will cease functioning at the level you need them to in order to continue living.  HCQ has the effect of slowing that inflammation response down, giving your body time to produce the antibodies needed to kill the virus.

Imagine floating on a river, but at the end of that river is a waterfall.  That waterfall is the cytokine storm.  At some point, you’ll be too close to the waterfall to be able to swim away.  HCQ will basically slow the flow of the river so that you can swim out.  No, it won't work for everyone, but the earlier you can start getting out the better.

So what happens if you give HCQ to someone at the point of the cytokine storm?  Now your physiology is whacked up, and your body doesn’t give the same response.  That’s why giving it to people early is a good thing with minimal risk, while giving it to people in the later stages of the disease is bad.  (Or, to continue the analogy, you go over the waterfall, but we drained the water away from the bottom so you slam into the rocks instead of falling into a lake.  It’s not a perfect analogy, but it’s the best one I’ve got right now.)

HCQ’s other benefit (it's believed) is that it can grab onto zinc ions and deliver them into the virus.  It is believed that zinc stops the viral replication, but zinc is not good at traversing the cell boundries all by itself. So it hitches a ride on HCQ.

That’s why both are used.

 

I also won't be surprised to learn that different blood types are more prone to the clotting effect than others.  I know there's some evidence that some types are more likely to have better outcomes than others, so I fully expect that genetics play a role at some level.  Which isn't surprising, as there's a rare gene mutation that prevents HIV infection.  This gene may have played a part in certain people surviving the Plague back in Europe's Middle Ages.

It's weird being fascinated by the data and information coming out of this.  I hope I'm not alone. 

 

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I'm kinda thrilled even just to see a reasonable, open discussion of hydroxychloroquine lol. It was so politicized and awful there for a while.

 

I've been open to the idea of it from the get-go simply because so many practicing doctors were reporting success with it, and I know we haven't had the proper studies, and all that still needs to be done, etc., etc., but I was blown away to learn there's observations going back nearly twenty years suggesting that such drugs show an ability to disrupt the cell walls of coronaviruses, which, you know. Seems pretty interesting, to say the least. Wildly intriguing, really, at least for me. I hope people keep pushing and exploring that avenue. This won't be our last novel coronavirus, even if we get it under wraps.

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Sorry to hear it, I hope that you get well quickly and make a full recovery.

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On 8/28/2020 at 5:10 AM, TGP said:

Did your Docs explain what each component was for?

It sounds like they beg to differ with the FDA, CDC, and all the media echo chamber reporting against using Hydroxychloroquin.

 

 

That is the Z-pak having its way with your GI track.

 

 

Interesting.

 

 

 

I hope you continue to improve. You didn't say (?) if you are being treated at home or in a Covid Ward. Hoping the first. Well done that you quit smoking.

Agreed on disagreement with experts.  Hydroxychoroquin is, and has been doubly determined, NOT to be a safe way to treat or prevent COVID 19 and there are pretty nasty side effects that aren't worth the risk.  Doc not get the memo?

Edited by BLZeebub
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Sadly, hydroxychloroquine has been maligned in the media for monetary (pharma cannot make money of cheap generic) and political reasons (and I hate Trump).   The trials that showed dangerous side effects were poorly done giving much higher than the maximum recommended dosage to critically ill patients.  In fact I think the study authors from Britain should be disbarred from practicing medicine, their study design was so bad. 

A very recent Dr John Campbell video has him talking about it, and about the new observational study from Belgium. 

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3 hours ago, Citrine said:

Sadly, hydroxychloroquine has been maligned in the media for monetary (pharma cannot make money of cheap generic) and political reasons (and I hate Trump).   The trials that showed dangerous side effects were poorly done giving much higher than the maximum recommended dosage to critically ill patients.  In fact I think the study authors from Britain should be disbarred from practicing medicine, their study design was so bad. 

A very recent Dr John Campbell video has him talking about it, and about the new observational study from Belgium. 

I don't know how much of it is intentional maligning.  But it was definitely not indicated for COVID, then it was maybe (I forgot if that was before or after Trump started spouting its virtues), then it was off the table again (at least as recently as June, 2020) for COVID due to the rarer side effects.  The side effects are real, if fairly uncommon, and I've taken it for 27 days as an anti-malarial--no side effects that I could tell.  When is the study you're referring to, relative to the most recent *news* update on HQC's use?

Another reason for maligning is simply that it hasn't been thoroughly tested for the new use.  It's usually prescribed as an anti-malarial (and maybe as an anti-clotting agent?  Not sure of all the uses), but prescribing it for symptoms of a completely unknown disease is kind of bonkers without rigorous testing.  We're still finding new symptoms and complications that may make this the wrong drug for some patients.  Too many variables!

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It may not do anything vs the covid virus itself, but hydroxychloroquine treats the symptoms very effectively, reducing inflammation and the immune system over-reaction.  It's been used for inflammatory disease for over 50 years.  At low dose (200-400mg) and short term use the side effects and risks are minimal for most. 

 

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