Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Standifer

Historical..Um...Ish Tanks

Recommended Posts

The Maus was just another symptom of what was wrong in the Wehrmacht; overdiversity. 

They tried to create a weapon for every situation, and it resulted in chaos. 

They had how many different size mortars?

 

And sticking a 150mm gun on the tank would just have resulted in yet another calibre shell that would need to be manufactured, shipped and stored wherever the tank might be used. 

Not to mention engine spares and whatever parts happened to be unique for that model. 

 

The Romanian troops on the German's Northern flank during the assault on Stalingrad were equipped with captured French guns and had on average just 6 shells for each cannon. And no way of getting more. It's even debatable how many of the guns were still in working order as they had no spares or tools for them. That was where the Russians attacked when they started the pincher movement. 

 

Every one of Hitler's 'pet projects' took resources that could have been better spent in manufacturing already functioning weapons. 

 

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Gadgetman! said:

The Maus was just another symptom of what was wrong in the Wehrmacht; overdiversity. 

They tried to create a weapon for every situation, and it resulted in chaos. 

They had how many different size mortars?

 

And sticking a 150mm gun on the tank would just have resulted in yet another calibre shell that would need to be manufactured, shipped and stored wherever the tank might be used. 

Not to mention engine spares and whatever parts happened to be unique for that model. 

 

The Romanian troops on the German's Northern flank during the assault on Stalingrad were equipped with captured French guns and had on average just 6 shells for each cannon. And no way of getting more. It's even debatable how many of the guns were still in working order as they had no spares or tools for them. That was where the Russians attacked when they started the pincher movement. 

 

Every one of Hitler's 'pet projects' took resources that could have been better spent in manufacturing already functioning weapons. 

 

 

 

Totally agree with this.

We count ourself lucky that the man with the little mustache didn't come to his senses.

 

A lot of his projects were absurd and wouldn't have worked anyway.

ME 262 could have made a difference when it was invented three years earlier.

And a few other projects just came too late for them.

But others were ridicilous, the Ratte would have been a huge sitting duck, barely able to move ( the resources to keep it moving alone would have been a logistics nightmare).

 

It does provide for a lot of cool model kits these days though.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2020 at 4:31 PM, Gadgetman! said:

Every one of Hitler's 'pet projects' took resources that could have been better spent in manufacturing already functioning weapons. 

Yes the resources would’ve been better used on improving the panthers and tiger II’s. Both of them suffered from drive train issues. Fortunately though as Glitterwolf said Hitler was to erratic to be a truly effect strategist.

So after much experimentation trying to find a camouflage that I liked that looked fairly historical I have settled on this. The Tiger II has served as my guinea pig and is not done yet, but it is coming along.

0EE26597-154F-4612-B191-7A5129778B85.jpeg.e4056e147a954e7d86357dcafe838da6.jpeg

967DC3DE-6FD1-4C69-803D-6C9378489D6A.jpeg.9e177442ad497addbdd02b4214a7b296.jpeg
Started on a couple of other German vehicles.
6F38A929-0F0B-41D2-A3F1-C3484204470D.jpeg.daa73c35463153c865a9a4202a5012eb.jpeg

Compared to the German the Americans have been relatively easy as far as the camouflage.

Just started on the T29’s turret with the brown. 

77F7407C-4EFE-483C-BCA0-1E90933F596F.jpeg.12956a0d11abcad30707f7bb3b2f4430.jpeg
3438D3DF-F5C4-4A36-8E07-5FBD420A9416.jpeg.efb8462467cf26f2c23cc79ed437a103.jpeg

B7AC2276-3CB5-4CFA-9704-57FE5CB5699E.jpeg.cec295ac3cdadfede47ca6e22a9ea578.jpeg

I hadn’t planned to do any British vehicles for a while, but this was just too cool to pass up.

This is NOT a real vehicle but a figment of someone’s imagination, this is the Carlisle tank hunter. 
9577FF32-B5B2-438A-9856-707CCA617F7C.jpeg.3d2f541d8077daffc7954f6257d12da2.jpegE6E15C4D-E98D-4767-9098-4C7B6CADA3C1.jpeg.8cc113a640aec398483868b7b18988e7.jpeg05FE4F49-6C1E-4039-BEA7-86D10FA96C0F.jpeg.2c498ad05cf527e57ee1e119dbc7e315.jpeg

Thanks for looking!

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That tank hunter looks... British...   

I can actually imagine a British designer draw this up as a serius proposition. 

 

After all, they kept on 'improving' on the Mark series of tanks well into the 20s. 

 

What baffles me about German camo paint is how orcish some are about colour choices. 'It has to be exactly xxxxx green' and so on.

But the fact is that they were repainted on site when transported to a different area, and the paint had to be thinned with oils before being applied. And the different oils available would subtly change the colour. 

The thick goop they added like you would tile cement was the worst in keeping to the 'correct¨colour.

(it was put on to stop magnetic grenades from sticking. The allied never actually used those grenades... )

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/1/2020 at 12:49 AM, Gadgetman! said:

The thick goop they added like you would tile cement was the worst in keeping to the 'correct¨colour.

(it was put on to stop magnetic grenades from sticking. The allied never actually used those grenades... )

I believe it was called Zimmerit, they actually stopped using it because it supposedly caught fire easily. Though this was unproven.

I have printed off a few more tanks in the past few weeks. 
The first is a pair a Panzer IV(I think they are Gs, I’ve slept since I printed them).

DF4F0F4C-0B81-4C98-87EB-A012F2B8ED60.jpeg.5847da2da66351799ee3018c6a413a7e.jpeg

While not the most famous of tanks from WW2 they were the most prolific of the German tanks with over 8,500 tanks built across a total of eight variants. It entered production in 1937 and served until 1945. 
 

Up next is a tank destroyer with a rather short but interesting history. These are the Dicker Max.

B48FA134-5F4C-4CF2-BB99-A01ED347D3E8.jpeg.7965a8454820446500726c780d7a1a84.jpeg

Originally conceived as long range bunker busters they were intended to be used against theFrench Maginot Line. However the two prototypes were not ready in time to participate in the Invasion of France. They were ready for their combat trials in time for operation Barbarossa. One caught fire which of course ignited its ammunition supply. The other survived until 1942 were all record of it cease to exist. The last known picture of it shows it with 18 kill rings. 
Here are my other vehicles in various stages of completion.

CAC94229-4C99-4EA1-A2FC-FA7F5CF1EC19.jpeg.67a610a11127709414df6d9968765b7c.jpeg420078E2-0DA4-4212-8843-9F2B93463E62.jpeg.e7aac45e789d63cb42f81cd231f7c52d.jpeg
4D73286D-EFE5-4040-8CFB-04C6EF66F2CD.jpeg.4fcdd7b6c33694dab3f64fa67753de4c.jpeg

2FD6252E-A693-4A29-AFB6-4DB59126064C.jpeg.111d31cb310d5569b40b092725f929fa.jpeg671F9D57-3DF2-4DA4-82DA-2F550D48EE65.jpeg.0f2cc8355d63a080d1cb24ed01afce77.jpeg

I did some research into U.S cammoflage and really couldn’t find a whole lot, So I decided to do a very American thing and just wing it. After all that is probably what the G.I.s did anyways.

304DF68F-8EA2-46E3-9D75-34C5E61031C6.jpeg.2575a1389690a28029c138c4b16f6f72.jpeg

9F053AFD-C611-4C98-8E78-50695BAE77C6.jpeg.7b32edff6b748b86c0e9a04ba429843f.jpeg2B81C230-B105-4FD4-B295-597921A59CC8.jpeg.eceea6ce863a410b91b4f58f531513d0.jpegA950383F-85D0-437F-B092-73AD0606FBA2.jpeg.4e6a41d9d2217c5d9be6e8f3641d966b.jpeg

Thanks for looking!

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cool.

It has been decades since I painted a panzer of some sorts but these make me want to..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a few notes. The use of zimmerit was stopped in 1944, July in the factories, October in the field. It was proven that it did not catch fire but the order was never rescinded. While the British and Americans didn't use magnetic anti-tank devices the Soviets did. Zimmerit was only a defense against magnetic anti-tank weapons, it did nothing to reduce the effects of bazookas or piats. Since it added days to the deploying a vehicle ( a blow torch was used to dry it) that probably had a lot more to do with it being discontinued.

 

I think you are pretty much bang on for American camouflage. While it was more common than people think for the most part in Europe it was just adding black stripes. Although I do have a picture of a WWII era Sherman in a 4 color scheme, so feel free to go wild. I think the days of modelers getting hung on colors is pretty much over, just from what I have seen at any of the modeling competitions in the last few years. As Gadgetman stated, often camo was applied in the field by the crews and while it was supposed to be thinned by gasoline it could be thinned with almost anything. Plus pigment variations were common as the availability of painting supplies dropped. As an example the, more or less

, common red brown we see on many German vehicles varies from an almost vibrant red brown to a deep chocolate brown, just depends on how and where it was applied. So run wild, no one  can point out its not correct and for the most part you are doing the paper panzer thing so your reality is the only one that matters.

Edited by Heisler
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only important point when painting a Sherman is that if it has the long-barreled 75mm, the outermost part(what exyends past the short barreled version) was often painted black to attempt to hide that it was in fact a long-barreled version. 

The Germans would try to target those first if they spotted them because they were the ones most likely to be able to penetrate the Tiger's frontal armor.  

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2020 at 3:50 AM, Glitterwolf said:

It has been decades since I painted a panzer of some sorts but these make me want to..

You know you want to..........

If you want to print one off and paint it I can send you the link to the STL. I used. 
 

Thankyou @Heisler, and @Gadgetman!. The additional information is greatly appreciated!

 

Well the T29 is pretty much done. I just have one or two details to add that had slipped my mind before I did the mud effects. Being a prototype it of course used the T instead of the M and never had a name like the M4 Sherman or the M26 Pershing. So in the my Alternate history It will be called the M29 Chamberlain after Joshua Chamberlain.

2C9F68D8-10FD-4829-938C-30404E7F28A7.jpeg.001f931ecc78d23674e1537b4d5b5456.jpeg

8A798CB9-5883-4923-8ADD-A55F067CAA21.jpeg.cf1d31f8508791087f8d2e6f028abaf8.jpeg
Might print off another after I get some more tanks finished first.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking good.

I can get many files on thingiverse for panzers.

Thing is I have so many fantasy stuff that will get priority, that I will never get around to it.

Maybe one day.

But I still love to see them painted, I like tanks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/26/2020 at 5:27 AM, Glitterwolf said:

But I still love to see them painted, I like tanks.

Well you are in luck! Because now there two completely finished!

The M29 completely done.

Though it did suffer an injury the other day. My cat knocked it into the floor and broke right side to pieces. After glueing it back together I added some more mud to hide the damage. 

B671091B-5B7E-4214-ADBE-869304B482ED.jpeg.34e9171d06a69a3fd1bbf782a390dc01.jpeg
34056D81-5A8B-4EA9-8687-99E805D183CD.jpeg.1d805ae2ca5d0efb058169f3b390a520.jpeg

E9C1B37A-1C86-48C4-B268-BA4FD612CEEA.jpeg.9cd060e4fd453d44dd79c4feeed34b29.jpegFB7BFFB3-5FD3-4C13-BF30-BC828FB17B12.jpeg.40d6019554ffbee1087a8aeea3f3695d.jpeg

And the Tiger II is done as well!

I may have gone a little crazy with the mud.......

7CE4C3DB-9641-46CC-842B-BC91B822FAF8.jpeg.e6eace0dc612e4791157ecfa1d65305d.jpeg715485D9-F27B-4217-B565-D0482791529C.jpeg.6a07a711b0c9d071db64b046d369ac70.jpeg09CD5C1A-1E46-459C-B67B-1213EEBC82E4.jpeg.cf6a47cdc58ada7b00c8ca7f24694c79.jpeg79FE8E50-CF75-4BCF-84B7-2A2F5BD41D10.jpeg.3f79e48df6fff3dc014cbb3c41d3e08c.jpegF2894234-5176-49AC-9CF5-191E4EDACBEB.jpeg.c06df858bdbd2000962a30c960c0c3b9.jpeg

Next up..........whichever is done next!
(Either I can’t spell or spellcheck keeps changing Done to down)

Thanks for looking!

Edited by Standifer
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking good, so your cat wanted to point out it needed more weathering and battle damage, it was helping!

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2020 at 11:02 AM, Heisler said:

I think the days of modelers getting hung on colors is pretty much over, just from what I have seen at any of the modeling competitions in the last few years. As Gadgetman stated, often camo was applied in the field by the crews and while it was supposed to be thinned by gasoline it could be thinned with almost anything. Plus pigment variations were common as the availability of painting supplies dropped. As an example the, more or less

, common red brown we see on many German vehicles varies from an almost vibrant red brown to a deep chocolate brown, just depends on how and where it was applied. So run wild, no one  can point out its not correct and for the most part you are doing the paper panzer thing so your reality is the only one that matters.

 

I agree with this.  In addition, if you take the whole body of 'correct colours' from sources over the years you'll find a lot of disagreement, and in some cases colours long accepted as fact that later turned out to be incorrect anyway.  An example of this is that early german panzers were long thought to be dark grey overall, but were actually largely dark grey and chocolate brown - only in black and white photos this is difficult to detect.  While dark grey and brown is probably more correct, dark grey overall is an aesthetic I like better and one that suits the more common expectation, so that is the one I pick.

 

Probably an even more extreme of this is British North Africa "caunter" paint schemes.  

 

Inaccurate caunter:

 

notcaunter.jpg.fc2e9213f5e92da9b59c4c7a3e7f3fed.jpg

 

More accurate caunter:

 

caunter.jpg.2a0e4d19392aaa78f5daba659f359a03.jpg

 

That's a very significant difference.  The inaccurate caunter decorated the Matilda at Bovington Tank Museum, and everyone presumed that the Tank Museum ought to know, so it entered into the record as correct.  Now we know it isn't.  However, like the early german armour dark grey without the chocolate, my preference is definitely for the much jauntier blue, grey, and yellow-tan scheme so that is the one I will probably pick. 

 

In any case, when it comes to game pieces there's a fair bit of room to play with anyway - if for no other reason than it is usually impractical to expect somebody to purchase the same forces multiple times rather than re-use an existing force for different scenarios where the unit composition is suitable.  Thus we have some camouflage patterns common for late war germans in the East that vary markedly from those in Normandy, and then come the fall and into the Ardennes we start to see the dotted ambush scheme. After this we see the "paint shortage" scheme with 'close enough' colours slapped on over bare oxide primer.  If somebody chose to paint their Tiger IIs and other vehicles in dotted ambush, but then also chose to use them in the Late-August 1944 Cobra-Falaise action I think anyone who would nitpick it is probably just being overly pedantic.   I did my Germans in Normandy style camouflage, and would happily use them in any engagement the equipment was suitable for.  That force for Bolt Action cost me a fair penny, and I'd much rather have a different army altogether than buy 2 or 3 extra german forces just to paint differently.

 

Anyway, those are some sexy tonks you've got there so it was fun to read through the thread!

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, buglips*the*goblin said:

Anyway, those are some sexy tonks you've got there so it was fun to read through the thread

Thanks! Glad you liked looking through it!
I’ll be doing more work on the tanks after I finish up this sci fi squad I’m working on currently. I needed a short  break from tanks.

Someone, I won’t mention any names, printed off more than he could chew.......

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Heisler
      These have been in the WIP section for a while now and I finally finished them up. If your are curious about the process I have a complete list of links to my blog detailing everything that was done. I finished three of these but figured you only need to see pictures of one of them, they are all very similiar.
       
      The U304(f) are captured WWII French Halftracks (P107) which were armored by the Germans and served with the 21st Panzer Division in Normandy. They are among a large number of conversions of French vehicles created by Major Alfred Becker.
       

       
       
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/04/world-war-ii-project-return-to-normandy_30.html [The Beginning]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/05/world-war-ii-project-return-to-normandy.html [Axles]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/05/world-war-ii-project-return-to-normandy_4.html [Windscreens]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/05/world-war-ii-project-return-to-normandy_5.html [MGs]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/05/world-war-ii-project-return-to-normandy_7.html [Primer]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/05/world-war-ii-project-return-to-normandy_11.html [Base Coat]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/05/world-war-ii-project-return-to-normandy_12.html [Decals]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/08/world-war-ii-project-p107-fu304-f-21st.html [Paintwork]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/08/world-war-ii-project-p107-fu304-f-21st_25.html [Paintwork con’t]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/09/world-war-ii-project-p107-fu304-f-21st.html [Chipping]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/09/world-war-ii-project-p107-fu304-f-21st_10.html [Streaking]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/09/world-war-ii-project-p107-fu304-f-21st_17.html [Dust & Dirt]
      https://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2020/09/world-war-ii-project-p107-fu304-f-21st_10.html [Tracks & Wheels]
       
       
       
       
    • By Heisler
      I finally finished some of the WWII German tanks that I have in the stash. These are a bit on the unusual side even for the Germans. The 21st Panzer Division was part of the German’s D-Day defenses but had not really been properly equipped. Major Alfred Becker converted Obsolete French tanks and carriers to help equip the Division.
      These are from Mad Bob Miniatures, they are all resin and only require a bit of assembly. The resin is a bit on the soft side and the longer gun had to be straightened. The castings are a bit rough as well but since they are gaming pieces I didn’t take the time to smooth things out,  just normal prep. I would have liked something a bit more detailed but, for the price and the amount of use they will see, they are about perfect.

      Here are the ones I have completed so far:
       
       
      Starting off with the mSPW S307(f) with a Pak 40 ATG



       
      Then 3 self propelled artillery pieces, SdKfz 135/1 “Lorraine Schlepper”






       
      These are relatively small vehicles so they don’t need a lot of storage room. Since they are open topped they will be getting a few crew figures at some point as well. The 135/1 should have a blade in the back to absorb recoil when the gun is fired. I’m still considering scratch building these because they seem a bit incomplete right now.
    • By CAVBOSS
      Just throwing this out there for anyone interested (yes I did back and no, I don't know them)...
      I did back their last KS as well and was happy with the results. They did a great in keeping people up to date and got all of the files out quickly.
       
      The figures look "funny" in the pictures due to them using the print-ready 3D files. I think that at the smaller scales especially, they are enhanced just enough so they will keep their detail and make them easier to paint IMO.
       
      Anyway take a look if you are interested!
      http://kck.st/322b1bO
    • By Green Eyed Monster
      Today marks the 76th Anniversary of what has been dubbed "The Longest Day", when the push to liberate Europe from NAZI Oppression and predation set foot on the beaches of Normandy, France.
      Please keep all the brave men [and the corp of Nurses who didn't have to but volunteered anyway] who sacrificed so much for all of us in that and the subsequent days and months.
      GEM
      Proud to be a US Navy Veteran
  • Who's Online   22 Members, 2 Anonymous, 32 Guests (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...