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Fencig

Primer for pewter?

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I did a search for this problem and nothing came up.

          Recently picked up a pair of  Iron Wind Ral Partha re-casts, the new ones in the Black/Red blister packs that are lead free and presumably pewter with high Zinc content. I haven't had trouble getting my primer to adhere to metal before but on this model it sloughs off with the slightest pressure- Vallejo Acrlic Polyurethane 70.601 . I did wash the model with a toothbrush and 90% Isopropyl alcohol prior to primering.

   Am i using the worng primer? What's the best ones for metal mini's?

 

This ones claims it's suitable  for White Metal and of " extraordinary strength", the exact opposite of what i got

Quote

Surface Primer is available in a range of basic shades most frequently employed to prepare the surface of the model or miniature before starting the painting process. Primers can be applied on all surfaces, resin, PVC, brass, white metal or wood. The primer preserving even the smallest detail of a model, and improves the adherence of the colors applied on this base. It is recommended to apply the Primer in various layers; the product dries rapidly and forms a homogenous film of extraordinary strength and resistance within a few hours after application. Surface Primer can be used directly or diluted with Vallejo Airbrush Thinner of Flow Improver. The recommended compressor settings are around 15-20 PSI or 0.5 to 1 kg. For best maintenance of the airbrush, it is recommended to use the Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner.


 

thanks

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I'm not familiar with that primer and can't comment on it. However Reaper sells a good brush on primer that works well on all their products, metal and plastic.  It should work on the Ral Partha.  For metal figs my preferred is Duplicolor sandable auto primer in white or light grey, available from a chain of auto parts stores with an Irish name. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Inarah said:

I'm not familiar with that primer and can't comment on it. However Reaper sells a good brush on primer that works well on all their products, metal and plastic.  It should work on the Ral Partha.  For metal figs my preferred is Duplicolor sandable auto primer in white or light grey, available from a chain of auto parts stores with an Irish name. 

 

 

 thanks, having worked on a lot of cars the rattle can enamel primers came to mind. My only concern was having our acrylic paints stick to the enamel. Assuming you haven't had any problems with this, no stickiness/tackiness, peeling, bubbling?

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That primer should work just fine, I own a large bottle. Shouldn't matter what material the mini is made from, pewter/resin/plastic. A lot of people complain about the Vallejo Surface Primer rubbing off, but I have never had a problem with it. You just need to let it sit for a few hours to a day, depending on what your climate is like.

 

How long did you let the model dry before the primer rubbed off?

 

I would recommend rewashing your miniature, but use soapy water instead of isopropyl alcohol (you didn't specify if you used soap originally, just a toothbrush and IPA, so I am assuming none was used). The soapy water will get rid of all the talc they probably used as a mold release better than the IPA. Let it dry completely. Then prime it.

 

EDIT: People I notice complaining about it rubbing off are usually scale model painters, who use masking tape on top of the primer when they airbrush. And from what I see on those forums, they don't let the primer cure long enough, so when they peel the masking tape up, it yanks the primer off too.

Edited by ManvsMini
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well it's very dry here, like 5% humidity and i let it sit for at least 24 hours. I didn't know they used Talc as mold release, that's useful info   .  I noticed the metal felt very slippery when i handled it. I wonder if the talc is actually embedded in the surface to some degree.

  I don't usually use water and soap on metal due to corrosion/oxidation  concerns and i don't use tape for anything. the primer rubbed off just from handling it.

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You won't have to worry about oxidation or corrosion from water with pewter; the individual elements that compose it are very resistant to water oxidation. It'd take quite a while for that to happen, or for your water to have some funky chemicals in it to cause it.

 

As for the talc mold release, not every company uses talc with metal minis, but some do (Reaper does/used to/possibly still does). It shouldn't embed in the surface of the pewter. If it felt slippery, it probably still had a mold release agent on it, possibly one that they spray into the molds and isn't removed by IPA.

 

Give the soap and water a try, and make sure you wash your own hands before handling the mini before priming or mounting it to whatever you use to hold the mini (if you use anything); keep even finger grease exposure to a minimum.

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Isopropyl with something non absorbent like a toothbrush is mostly going to just move stuff around rather than get it off the model. You're lifting the grease and oils, but not actually removing them so when the alcohol dries they just settle back on the mini. Soap and water works because once you lift the oils you then rise them away with more water.

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I use Vallejo airbrush primer and don't have issues with it. Only comes off if I'm really rubbing it like mad after it is set. You should give it some setting time though, as with most primers.

 

You do need a clean miniature. Metal or plastic, I slosh mine around in soapy water and rinse it. If it seems like it has gunk I'll pull out the toothbrush too. If you've handled the figure a lot, finger grease will also interfere with adhesion.

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28 minutes ago, Ratmaster2000 said:

Blasphemy! there is only one primer! Stynlrez!

Haha, you know i'm just giving you a hard time @Cyradis 

 

Happy to try it at some point. But this is easy to get and I have it. Soooo.... no need to get more of a new thing if the old one isn't broken right now. It isn't like a new color of paint :P

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well i scraped off a flat area the size of a nickel or quarter, using just my fingernail it came off effortlessly.  washed with soap and water, let dry, primed, waited overnight. Today  the primer just comes off like before.  An area i tested using straight up citadel Base paint and no primer had twice the adhesion. Not sure what happened to this stuff but it's terrible

 

I'm done with it, went to a spray on Enamel, less work too than brushing on the Valejo. I know there have been mixed reports about it but it can't get too much worse than what i have now. A quick search shows that fully cured enamel will accept acrylic very well, just don't go the other way

 

 
Quote

 

Can you paint acrylic over enamel model?
Generally speaking, it's normally OK to apply acrylics over enamels, given that the latter are fully cured. Rule of thumb is that the opposite does not work - however, if applied carefully, and without too much thinner, and in relatively small areas, then enamel can sometimes work over acrylics.Jan 17, 2013

 

so here is my next attaempt, i'll report back after i start laying paint down . This ia big model and will take a lot of paint so fingers crossed
P1010731.thumb.JPG.6c14b0a7c753bcbb4d79b908029e217b.JPG
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2 hours ago, Fencig said:

well i scraped off a flat area the size of a nickel or quarter, using just my fingernail it came off effortlessly.  washed with soap and water, let dry, primed, waited overnight. Today  the primer just comes off like before.  An area i tested using straight up citadel Base paint and no primer had twice the adhesion. Not sure what happened to this stuff but it's terrible

 

Could be a bad bottle. It does happen from time to time. Contact Vallejo and let them know. They'll probably make some form of recompense.

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I too  have had problems getting brush on primers to adhere to some metal miniatures although I tried a variety of brands.  Vallejo surface primer came off very easily.  I found Army Painter spray on primer worked on many of the problem miniatures although I had to go with Dupli-color automotive sandable primer on some of the most difficult ones.  Although it is not environment friendly and requires good ventilation, Dupli-color adheres well and provides a good surface for painting.

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1 hour ago, cmorse said:

There is definitely a reason people have been shifting to Stynylrez since it came out.

wouldn't hurt to try it, 6 bucks for a big 2 ounce bottle. Says " spray on" can it be brushed on too?

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