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Neyuttad

Classic Battletech vs CAV

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I have played both and "all in all" cav tips the balance because of the bloody heat-sinc and weapons capabilities...it is like when you have played any of the MW computer games ....if you over heat you are in serious deep crapola...it was and still is a very silly rule ...Cav has kicked that rule in the head ....if you have played earthsiege or starsiege..they are very much like Cav....then you have played a very similar ...computer version of Cav....yup they are considderd as as lesser version of MW....but a lot more interesting and fun to play....thats why i play it ..i still have CBT ...it's stuffed in the loft ...no minis just the books and some fluff... ::D:

The heat rule was there for play balance, and to add more strategy to the game. You may not like it, but it did make for a more challenging game (at least under Lvl1 rules). I admit I'm a die hard 3025 CBT player, where heat was a serious issue, and definitely influences game tactics; i.e. I could Alpha Strike this guy and hope to take him down, but I'd risk almost instant shut down. Added A LOT of color to the game that CAV just doesn't have, IMHO.

 

Damon.

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In the "essentials for play" list, whoever posted forgot about the Poker Card deck.

 

Which makes me wonder what would happen if somebody played CAV with a Pinocle--or weirder, Tarot--deck.

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Doesn't matter really. All you need is some way to randomly cause sections to activate. Use Bingo tiles if that's all you have, and draw them out blindly. As long as each section has it's own identifying widget that can be shuffled with the others and drawn out blindly. You could even roll dice if you didn't have any widgets or whatsit's.

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You need four D10s, a few D6 for marking, terrain, and a tape measure.

By "a few D6 for marking", Frosch means tracking damage. In BT, you use your pencil to color in the little dots on your Mech's record sheet. In CAV, you track each model's damage level by putting a die next to it that shows the model's current Damage Track. It doesn't have to be a d6 either, so long as the die's # of sides is >= the model's # of DT.

 

Something that Stuart mentioned was that he'd get bored playing with the same 4 CAVs all the time. That's true, but it definately isn't something that applies only to CAV. BT has so many friggin' Mechs to choose from that sometimes the choices are overwhelming. Worse yet, if you insist on using miniatures for your games, your selection is drastically reduced b/c not all of the Mechs in print have miniatures in production. Like not half of them. (Based on the last time I played which was about 3 years ago, I have no idea how IWM has been doing w/producing minis).

 

Something else that goes hand in hand with buying new minis and growing your army: Say you start playing both games w/4 minis. In BT, if you go out and drop $20 on 3 new Mechs, you've got to figure out which of your original 3 you're going to leave at home now when you go play. In CAV, you drop $20 on 2 CAVs (or a CAV and 2 vehicles) and you just add them to your army. Of course there's a limit to where you finally get too many CAVs to use in a normal game, but it happens a lot later than it does with BT.

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In CAV, you drop $20 on 2 CAVs (or a CAV and 2 vehicles) and you just add them to your army.  Of course there's a limit to where you finally get too many CAVs to use in a normal game, but it happens a lot later than it does with BT.

I think the point that stuart was trying to make it that you can enjoy BT with only a few mechs. Something you can't do with CAV whether it is now or later.

 

Now that I've read deeper into the CBT rulebook about designing your own mechs, even two of the same model don't actually play the same way.

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Which makes me wonder what would happen if somebody played CAV with a . . . Tarot--deck.

[imagine]

Oh - It's my activation. And also, apparently I'm going to have a visitor!

 

My turn now, and it looks like I'm going to succumb to the plague.

[/imagine]

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Something that Stuart mentioned was that he'd get bored playing with the same 4 CAVs all the time. That's true, but it definately isn't something that applies only to CAV. BT has so many friggin' Mechs to choose from that sometimes the choices are overwhelming. Worse yet, if you insist on using miniatures for your games, your selection is drastically reduced b/c not all of the Mechs in print have miniatures in production. Like not half of them. (Based on the last time I played which was about 3 years ago, I have no idea how IWM has been doing w/producing minis).

Just about every mech in the TROs is in production; only a small handful are not (they're even starting production of variants of certain mechs, very cool). They're even starting to do the MWDA mechs later this year (IIRC November).

 

I dunno about anyone else, but I definitely been approaching CAV very differently. I would MUCH rather have a large variety of units, so I can tailor sections to what I want, than to just keep using the same sections, only adding on when you make enough purchases. The idea in CBT that if you buy more than 4 minis you have to leave them home is no different than in CAV: at some point you'll have more minis than you'll need for sections.

 

Damon.

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Ok been following this thread with somewhat of an interest...

 

So here is an honest mechanical comparison

 

Yes there are differences

 

BTech

 

3025 especially it is a game that empahsises resource management in many ways. You have three resources to manage when playing Tech:

 

Heat

Armor

Ammo

 

The heat factor goes down in 3050 and later.

 

The game plays the best (according to many) at the lance level or bellow... that is four units, and it EMPHASIZES Mecha. The BattleMech is truly the king of the battlefield. (We have done very large games... and they were fun, but pack a lunch)

 

 

CAV mechanically emphasizes resources but at a different level. It is more balancing what units to throw in, as power rarely becomes an issue... since CAVs really die fast. Though the game works well in the lance (section).level it really shines in the combined arms\company level and above

 

Mechanically this is like comparing oh I dunno Battlefront, (Regiment and above WW II game) to Flames of War, squad level and company level. You could say that CAV is the Battleground of the mecha setting, while Tech is the flames of war, and the comparison breaks here as Flames of War is very fast in its play, which tech is not

 

Now in between these two falls Heavy Gear... which is also fairly fast playing, heck far faster than Tech, but slower than CAV (especially if the advanced rules are used) It is far more detailed than CAV mechanically, but far less detailed than Tech... hence why speed wise it falls in the middle

 

Now where Tech shines (as well as Heavy Gear) are in the background story. If I take my stompy Atlas from House Steiner I know what that MechWarrior is fighting for. If I take my Kodiak from the Norhtern League same story.. but I have yet to see a reason to go kill or be killed in CAV. So there is where it is falling on its face. What happens to it, I really don't care, but for its sake, lets hope they do work on the background for it.

 

That said... back to work... it is fun to create the resasons to kill or be killed... but for the player who asked... it truly depends what you are looking for. If your choice is a fairly detailed game system that runs somehwat slow... but is suposed to shine at four or bellow, tech is your choice. If you want squad or company level look into either CAV or heavy Gear.

 

As to how many units you really need to buy, depends... we like to play wiht WYSIWYG... but some people manage to play Tech with one Mech per class. They stand for everything, and you can get that for CAV too

 

Oh and this is not to say which system is better... it is truly a matter of taste.

 

Just remember, regardless of what game you play... there are some folks who take their game a tad too seriously,. It is scary when you see peoplle playing oh I dunno, Axis and Allies and Monopoly and taking it that seriously that they scream at each other. So remember, if you encouter those people they may sour your taste in games, as they have with me. There is a reason why I will not play Tech... and it is the fanatics... has nothing to do with the game itself... I recomend walk away from that crowd, and they exist in ANY game system... they are not healthy for the hobby or your blood pressure, but oh well...

 

Oh and there are other issues to consider, including who is playijg what and where. Here where I live I can right now make the general statement taht Tech is dead, CAV is dead, and HG is on life support... why? it is not selling and nobody is buying... then again nobody is pushing... so consider this, who plays and do you wnat to be the one starting a gaming group.

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It'll really be helpful if someone can take a picture of a mech and a cav next to each other. I'm thinking about buying some CAVs and I'm interested to see how they stand to each other sizewise.

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It'll really be helpful if someone can take a picture of a mech and a cav next to each other. I'm thinking about buying some CAVs and I'm interested to see how they stand to each other sizewise.

No need, IWM many years ago lost its scale basis. Assaults, such as the Templar, are very much in scale with CAVs... and I am not kidding you.

 

The only thing that may look smallish is the cockpit, but truthfully you could field

a Tempar or a new Warhammer in a section of Dictators and they are in scale to each other

 

So either CAV is not N scale (which I know is not the case) or IWM is producing suposedely mciroarmor in N Scale

 

by the by they did the same with the Clicky version, and it was a decision made many years ago to proudce the smaller units (infantry) in the actual scale. After that there is a significant scale creep. To the point that the Atlas in Clicky is truly HO not N scale.

 

So if you decide to use IWM heavy and assaults in CAV, as long as you go for the ones with no hands, they'll fit right in.

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The scales are kinda similar. Battletech figs in general tend to be smaller, but they've been creeping upwards in size, as has been said.

 

Just as an example, common light mechs like the Locust and Jenner are about the same height as a CAV Puma, although not quite the same bulk. (Much thinner front-to-back, generally, and weapons generally enclosed in the body.)

 

Some of the larger mechs... some are small - a Thug, for example, is not much bigger than the Jenner overall, despite being in-game twice its mass - but it's an older sculpt. A newer one? A Warhammer IIC doesn't look out of place at all next to a Dictator.

 

And a bunch of older figures, especially the heavies and assaults, are getting resculpted to scale more appropriately.

 

A friend of mine is hugely fond of the new Clan assault 'mech, the Blood Asp, and the resculpt of that stands slightly taller than a Rhino.

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