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5e modifications and rule changes?


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So really what it sounds like is, if I want to create a wizard character, it is far better to pick up training in slight of hand (not a bad trait for wizards in general) and just ignore the knock spell unless its necessary to pop a lock from a distance or use it as a trap to draw monsters in.  

 

The effect seems a little ridiculous, but it can be used (hide 60 feet away, cast knock, see who comes running and get the drop on them from behind).  Its just important to know about.  And I should post a picture later but the sound is not in my version of the PBH, so it would be good to know about these things.  

 

What I would really wish for, there is no reason to produce, but it would be nice to have a comparison between 3.5 or ADD and 5e saying what changed and what didn't.   Normally I wouldn't bother but there are some younger DMs out there that get hot and bothered if you don't know the rules (even if you had no reason to suspect that they had changed)  I have seen a number of DMs at the local gaming store go off their rocker on some poor player who tried to use flanking when the game was newer.

 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the input and if anyone knows of other examples like this (knock suddenly grew a loud noise, flanking is optional, etc.) care to spill the beans?

 

Roo

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2 hours ago, Kangaroorex said:

So really what it sounds like is, if I want to create a wizard character, it is far better to pick up training in slight of hand (not a bad trait for wizards in general) and just ignore the knock spell unless its necessary to pop a lock from a distance or use it as a trap to draw monsters in.  

 

The effect seems a little ridiculous, but it can be used (hide 60 feet away, cast knock, see who comes running and get the drop on them from behind).  Its just important to know about.  And I should post a picture later but the sound is not in my version of the PBH, so it would be good to know about these things.  

 

What I would really wish for, there is no reason to produce, but it would be nice to have a comparison between 3.5 or ADD and 5e saying what changed and what didn't.   Normally I wouldn't bother but there are some younger DMs out there that get hot and bothered if you don't know the rules (even if you had no reason to suspect that they had changed)  I have seen a number of DMs at the local gaming store go off their rocker on some poor player who tried to use flanking when the game was newer.

 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the input and if anyone knows of other examples like this (knock suddenly grew a loud noise, flanking is optional, etc.) care to spill the beans?

 

Roo

Well first example is that Sleight of Hand doesn't really control lockpicking, that would be covered under the Thieves Tools tool proficiency.  Knock does have the advantage of being able to open barred or stuck doors as well as those that are magically locked.

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On 5/31/2021 at 6:59 PM, BlazingTornado said:

A regular car is hardly loud though.

This is more like a really loud muscle car careening through. You'd hear that over more noise.

 

Although, the adjective "loud" is a relative concept, and needs to be understood contextually. For instance, a "loud whisper" is likely to be significantly less loud than a "loud explosion". Similarly, I'd argue that a "loud knock" doesn't need to anywhere near as loud as a "loud car engine".

 

When I DM, I describe it as the sound of metal door knocker striking a wooden door firmly. I've read about DM's who make it a deafeningly loud gunshot-like sound and that just seems a bit obnoxious and over the top to me. YMMV of course.

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17 hours ago, Dilvish the Deliverer said:

Well first example is that Sleight of Hand doesn't really control lockpicking, that would be covered under the Thieves Tools tool proficiency. 

What I got from the PHB and the DMG , thieves tools is not a proficiency.  Thieves tools provides a bonus to the slight of hand proficiency when performing specific tasks.  I had to spend a lot of time both with the books and with other DMs trying to get the hang of kits and tools.  If you found a specific call to use Thieves tools and other kits as separate proficiency, please let me have the location in the rules because I missed it completely.

17 hours ago, Dilvish the Deliverer said:

 

Knock does have the advantage of being able to open barred or stuck doors as well as those that are magically locked.

True but if the door is that stuck you may as well point the barbarian or fighter at it and get it unstuck 😀

 

To be fair it also includes things like history creeping into my worlds.  Magical research is possible in 5e and not particularly dangerous and elven wizards have been around for thousands of years.  In all that time no wizard has scratched their head and asked "I wonder if I can modify the spell to not make noise....'  

 

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I kinda understand why there is a drawback to this spell. A wizard is already a super useful class to have around, and it's kinda nice that the rogue is better at one of their "core class fantasie things", breaking in by silently opening doors. Or someone else who invested into Dex and Thieve's Tools. 

The books themselves say that there are more spells in the world than in the PHB, so you can easily add an improved Knock spell for your players to find or research themselves or just handwave the sound on the original spell, but for the core game I support a 2nd level spell being unable to outshine a very talented thief in opening locks.

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1 hour ago, Kangaroorex said:

Thieves tools provides a bonus to the slight of hand proficiency when performing specific tasks.

As far as the PHB is concerned, proficiency with the tool lets you add the proficiency modifier to an ability check if you do it with the tool you're proficient with.

 

WOTC kind of realized how much of a drawback that was, especially as applied to things like thieves tools, because taking thieves tools without sleight of hand (for example) is far more limiting than vice versa.

 

Xanathar's Guide To Everything offers up the alternative that if you're proficient in both a skill and a tool for a check, you get advantage on the roll.

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On 5/31/2021 at 7:54 PM, BlazingTornado said:

I just went over a copy of the D&D Next playtest rules from 2013 and the loud noise was there too, just at a lower range.

 

I just checked the SRD as well, thinking that it might have been something accidentally left out of it (Which a lot of 3rd party tools use), it's there as well.

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