Next Level Miniatures is on Kickstarter (Rappan Athuk, a giant dragon, fantasy minis galore)

[BlazingTornado]

46 minutes ago, JoeGKushner said:

 

Depending on the price point, I'm in.

 

I cannot imagine the pricing being as good as it was this time around with the way things have all gone up in costs.

It's Siocast so maybe it'll manage to keep a low price point?

 

Personally I'm more miffed they haven't even started on international orders yet they're announcing this.

[Grumpy Gnome]

All the controversy about model scale and delayed deliveries and they start promoting the next Kickstarter… it irks me.

[BlazingTornado]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Gnome said:

All the controversy about model scale and delayed deliveries and they start promoting the next Kickstarter… it irks me.

It's only controversial if you didn't pay attention, really. They explicitly said 28mm tall w/o base for the average medium-sized mini on the size chart.

 

 

 

That being said the vampire lord still comes off woefully underscaled compared to the other minis showcased next to him.

Edited February 11 by BlazingTornado

[Marc]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:03 AM, Grumpy Gnome said:

All the controversy about model scale and delayed deliveries and they start promoting the next Kickstarter… it irks me.

Has there been that much controversy though? Sincerely asking.

 

I know a few folks here have commented negatively on the sizes, but I’m not sure the rises to the level of “all the controversy” 

 

And it’s pretty common for a company to announce their next Kickstarter as their current one is fulfilling.

 

[Grumpy Gnome]

I think there has been sufficient complaints to equate to a controversy, if for no other reason than several people seem to disagree about the complaints being valid. And I do not think it is a case of people not paying enough attention. 
 

Not all “28mm tall” means the same thing, heroic or true scale, 28mm to the eyes or the top of the head? Look at how some folks have reacted negatively to the size of minis from Archon Studio‘s D&L 3 & 4 Kickstarters and that has resulted in Archon Studio deciding to make figures larger for D&L 5.

 

As whether it may be common or not, I think a mention is one thing, concerted marketing is another… and this particular fulfillment is not common in how it is proceeding with its small test postings. Which also irks me.

edit: A scale chart that only shows renders compared to other figures within the KS are not particularly useful to gauge how the final pieces will scale with figures from other manufacturers.

 

Edited February 12 by Grumpy Gnome

[JoeGKushner]

On 2/11/2023 at 7:53 AM, BlazingTornado said:

It's only controversial if you didn't pay attention, really. They explicitly said 28mm tall w/o base for the average medium-sized mini on the size chart.

 

 

 

That being said the vampire lord still comes off woefully underscaled compared to the other minis showcased next to him.

Pretty sure the models don't actually stack like that though.  That huge dragon for example is pretty small in the actual figure.  I'll have to see if I can get some pics up. I mean sure the rocks reach from one end to the other and the wings give it some width but dragon size?  I have Grenadier Dragons of the Month that are bigger.  And pretty sure the troll, while big, doesn't take up that much of his base.

And the consistency is an issue. In scale for this we go, from the ones I've measured so far Orc, Skeleton, Zombie, Cultists.  Why the culstis is smaller than the skeletons or zombies I have no idea.

[BlazingTornado]

I meant more that it says 28mm than the actual side by side of renders.

[Grumpy Gnome]

And that is why I said controversy. 

[1dunnj]

yeah, its an industry wide problem (lack of consistant scale). They do look consistent between one another, and they quality looks great so far. My only complaint (and i'm going off a couple cherry picked pictures, i haven't had a chance to compare to my own collection) is that wizkids claims 28mm and reaper claims 25mm heroic (still dispite most recent town guard being humongous), so while i'd expect smaller than CMON (who claim 32mm) i'd expect to be in line with the rest of industry. 

On the flip side, i don't like reaper orcs and bugbears because they're way way too big.

[JoeGKushner]

Reaper's needed to update their site for a while. It hasn't been 25 heroic mm in years if not decades.

[ced1106]

I'm pretty much resigned that the more manufacturers you buy from (including boardgames), the more likely you'll have miniatures of different scales -- and proportions. Even scale and proportion may vary within a manufacturer, or even material used (eg. plastics can have thinner parts than metal). Archon took only one crowdfunding to switch scales, based on backer demand. 😕

 

"While a model may be described as 28 mm the actual height of the model may be different. This is because of a number of factors such as manufacturer, model proportion, method of measuring the model, the model's pose, and what sort of man the model is meant to represent. A manufacturer might advertise its figures as 28 mm, but their products may be over 30 mm tall. Manufacturer's use of scale is not uniform and can deviate by as much as 30%.[citation needed] Some manufacturers measure figure height from the feet to the eyes rather than the top of the head; therefore, a figure that is 30mm to the top of its head could be considered a to be 28mm miniature.

True scale proportions compared to heroic scale proportions

 

A further complication is differing interpretations of body proportions. Many gaming figures are unrealistically bulky for their height, with oversized feet, heads, hands, wrists, and weapons. Figurines with these exaggerated features are often referred to as "heroic scale". Some of these exaggerations began as concessions to the limitations of primitive mold-making and sculpting techniques, but they have evolved into stylistic conventions." - Wiki : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_model_(gaming)#Scales

 

"As a final note, even figures which ostensibly are in the same scale may differ considerably in body build, head size, and general sculpting style - even when made by the same manufacturer! (For instance, older figures vs. newer figures from the same company.) Styles may differ considerably, as some manufacturers see their goal as to make scale replicas, while others concentrate on making "gaming pieces" which are inexpensive, durable, or easy to paint. Plastic figures may be sculpted in a thinner style than metal figures. Therefore, if you are concerned whether you can mix figures from different product lines or companies and have them look appropriate, you may first want to order samples from the manufacturer." - TMP : http://theminiaturespage.com/ref/scales.html

 

 

[JoeGKushner]

Here's an example of what I was talking about in terms of scale.  The first picture is the one I finished. Note how his feet fit on the base.  The second one is the preview image by the Next Level Miniatures marketing. You can see a few differences. If you look at some of the other pictures in their marketing, you'll see more.  For one, either he's not on the actual base they included or they shrunk him.  Two, he has earning and that necklace has additional parts. I paint with an optivisor. It's not perfect but I can see a LOT of details. I could not make out the earing not the necklace pieces. The teeth on the upper mouth are very difficult to make out. So either they changed his sizing somewhere along the road or.... well, I don't know what else might have happened.

 

 

Next up is the Iron Golem. In D&D, since first edition, Iron Golems have been taller than ogres. Ogre is 10 feet, golem is 12. (Note I could not see this iron golem being size large at all so I threw him on a 30mm base. He'll make a good warforged Monk. )

 

That is not the case here. But it's also not really the case of 'taller' as much as style. By making the ogre so wide, the other monsters tend to look punny compared to them.  This happens with their internal line too. It's common on the undead.  For example, their zombies, skeletons, and ghouls, are all the same size or smaller than the goblins.  This is an issue with the human cultists as well who are smaller than all but the ghouls. 

[BlazingTornado]

Yeah, things like the undersized ghouls and vampire lord, that's the real disappointing part to me. (I don't really care about the Golem's size because not every iron golem will be built the same way)

I wouldn't mind them being true-28mm, or even 25mm in scale, I have plenty of minis in those sizes already.

But they clearly needed more internal consistency in how their entire line of minis scale up with one another.

 

 

As far as that promo pic you posted, I would think it's because Mike Disney mounted his ogre on a base smaller than 50mm. You look at the other painted promo sample by Andy Stalboerger and it's on a wider base:

Having smaller ogres is probably the thing I'd be happiest with because 90% of my ogres right now are Dark World, SCS Direct and Nu-Heroquest.

 

 

 

EDIT:
Joe, would you happen to have comparison pics between the NLM Kobold and some Bones kobolds (preferably the OG ones)?

Edited February 14 by BlazingTornado

[JoeGKushner]

22 minutes ago, BlazingTornado said:

Yeah, things like the undersized ghouls and vampire lord, that's the real disappointing part to me. (I don't really care about the Golem's size because not every iron golem will be built the same way)

I wouldn't mind them being true-28mm, or even 25mm in scale, I have plenty of minis in those sizes already.

But they clearly needed more internal consistency in how their entire line of minis scale up with one another.

 

 

As far as that promo pic you posted, I would think it's because Mike Disney mounted his ogre on a base smaller than 50mm. You look at the other painted promo sample by Andy Stalboerger and it's on a wider base:

Having smaller ogres is probably the thing I'd be happiest with because 90% of my ogres right now are Dark World, SCS Direct and Nu-Heroquest.

 

 

 

EDIT:
Joe, would you happen to have comparison pics between the NLM Kobold and some Bones kobolds (preferably the OG ones)?

I do not.

I only had the Reaper goblin to compare because he was on my pile of shame.  I'm sure I have some Reaper Kobols around somewhere but even if the NLM aren't equal to Reaper's scale, they're going to be close.  They're not as crazy proportioned as the goblins are but are still roughly the same height.

 

Note if reaper wants to send me that Learn to Paint Kobolds kit I'll showcase them both with the paints from that set. "-)

Edited February 14 by JoeGKushner

[BlazingTornado]

Someone on the Facebook group posted a scale comparison with the kobolds, they work really well (NLM, Wizkids Paizo PF, Blacklist, Hasbro Castle Ravenloft, Dungeons & Lasers)