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Reaper Bones V tackiness/stickiness - any help?


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Got my Reaper Bones V goodies a bit ago, and slapped some paints onto the Pumkinhead beholder.  I used Citadel Wraithbone primer, contrast paints, and Army Painter Matte varnish and...  months later it remains slightly tacky.  It's not...  awful.  But it's enough that if I put it away in a box with other minis, I'm afraid it won't mix well.  I've left it out in the sun for a day, thinking that might 'bake' the stickiness out of it...  It did not.  

 

I got Reaper Bones because I figured I could paint, varnish and throw into a box with all my prepainted minis.  Some of my older bones remain slightly tacky too.  But I figured that with this new round of Reaper Bones, they would have got that figured out.  I've painted up the undead giant, but not yet varnished him and I'm afraid to!

 

I've read the various Reaper Bones help threads, many of which are very old (and one sent me to Facebook, though it looks like it's no longer available.  I don't do social media anymore, so not sure?). 

 

Does anyone have any advice to help a guy out?  I'm pretty sure I shook my rattlecan varnish adequately.  I do live in western San Francisco and wonder if the humidity (fog, it's often cool and misty regardless of the season) may affect this.  I try to wait until the weather is clear.

 

What are you doing to keep your Bones stickiness-free?  Any advice you might have would be helpful.

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I don't do original Bones; never could paint them.  More recent Bones show more promise.

 

Lay on a relatively thick primer coat, covering everything.  Let it dry for a couple of days.  When you are sure it is completely dry, use a hair dryer on it.

 

Paint it.  Let it dry for a couple of days.  Hair dryer.

 

Avoid varnish, if possible,  If you have to, use a brush on, preferably Reaper.  Same advice on drying.

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42 minutes ago, Pancakeonions said:

 

What are you doing to keep your Bones stickiness-free?  Any advice you might have would be helpful.

 

Wash first. I use soap and water, others use isopropyl alcohol.  I use spray primer but have not had good results with contrast paint over that, it's much better on a layer of paint. I don't know if it leads to stickiness. 

 

With spray primer you've got to go very light with it. Think sheer fabric, not full coverage. If it gets heavy and glossy it's going to be sticky.  Bones 1-3 weren't too bad, but it's harder to prime 4 & 5 and not have it get sticky. 

 

FWIW, humidity here in the midwest is awful and I don't find it affects my end results at all.   Things take longer to dry, but they get there. 

 

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Don't use rattle-can, not primers neither varnish, on bones: solvents and bones do not react well and it ends up tacky. If you do not like brush-on primers invest in a basic airbrush you gonna use just for priming.

Here  you'll find all you need to know about priming bones.

Quoting @Wren : "Aerosol spray primers and some spray paints can have some issues with Bones (and with other plastics). The chemicals in some of these primers and paints do not react well with Bones. The main effect seems to be that the primer never completely cures, remaining tacky to the touch. Some will also fail to form a bond with the Bones material."

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I can tell you *why* it's sticky, if that helps much (probably not).  Bones are PVC.  The same stuff as polymer clay, which has the exact same issue.  Toluene, the solvent that makes spray paint work, has the same effect on PVC that it does on brain cells and has no qualms about squirming its little methylbenzene way through the microscopic gaps in several layers of acrylic paint to cuddle.  PVA-based brush on sealer seems to fix the problem.

TLDR: If you spray Bones, use an airbrush.  If you forget this, Ceramcoat matte sealer may help.

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On 9/7/2021 at 10:08 PM, kitchen_wolf said:

I can tell you *why* it's sticky, if that helps much (probably not).  Bones are PVC.  The same stuff as polymer clay, which has the exact same issue.  Toluene, the solvent that makes spray paint work, has the same effect on PVC that it does on brain cells and has no qualms about squirming its little methylbenzene way through the microscopic gaps in several layers of acrylic paint to cuddle.  PVA-based brush on sealer seems to fix the problem.

TLDR: If you spray Bones, use an airbrush.  If you forget this, Ceramcoat matte sealer may help.

 

Found this thread too late...😭

 

So, do you think there is any chance of this Toluene stuff evaporating over time?

I fear I just ruined my wall of ice mini I painted during RVE. Here's how NOT to do it:

  1. Paint the Wall of Ice during RVE and be proud of the result.
  2. Attach it to bigger base as a backdrop for another mini
  3. Seal it with reaper brush on gloss sealer so nothing will happen to it
  4. I'ts sealed now, so I'm safe and can do anything I want with it, right?
  5. Give it a coat of expensive Sennelier gloss varnish for artists, for that extra shine (my favourite gloss varnish at the moment)
  6. Varnish becomes tacky
  7. Cry on the forum

@Pancakeonions: I feel your pain!

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1 hour ago, Samedi said:

 

 

  1. Give it a coat of expensive Sennelier gloss varnish for artists, for that extra shine (my favourite gloss varnish at the moment)
  2.  

 

Isn't that a resin based varnish?  An actual varnish, not acrylic sealer? The kind used with oil paints?  You might try brushing some turpentine over it, and seeing if the stickiness can be reduced. 

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I do not have much useful knowledge of varnishes to share. However, I suspect that Inarah is correct. One thing I do know is that modern fine art varnishes are designed to be removed so curators can more easily clean and restore artworks. 

You could do a test spray of the Sennelier varnish on some styrene or even just an old yoghurt container and test using turpentine (I'd probably start with odourless mineral spirits, though be aware those are still off-gassing chemicals even if you don't smell them). For kicks I'd probably start by trying 91% rubbing alcohol. For a really thorough test, I'd first paint my test material with the same kind of paint you used on the figure, then the varnish, then let it sit a while to cure, and then start testing. They use something like Q-tips on paintings I think, but you could also try applying the removers with an old brush and see how that goes.

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3 hours ago, Inarah said:

 

Isn't that a resin based varnish?  An actual varnish, not acrylic sealer? The kind used with oil paints?  You might try brushing some turpentine over it, and seeing if the stickiness can be reduced. 

Thanks @Inarah. Actually I'm not sure, it just says "for acrylics and oil, but there's some acetone in it, so you may be right.

 

What I forgot to mention was Step 4.5:

First apply another safety coat of Army Painter Satin Spray Varnish, because I have it and never use it much. So there's your acrylic rattle can. 🤭

 

As for the turpentine: I'm way too scared to try that. So I'll just let it sit and let the chemistry do it's thing. Maybe it will stay tacky, maybe it will eventually harden and maybe I'll end up with a blob of slime. We'll see...

 

If I remember I'll post how it went in a few weeks, for science!

 

Also, thanks @Wren, seems we posted at the same time. Since this mini wasn't meant for the table, I take "tacky" and see how it works out.😊

Edited by Samedi
Needed to thank Wren as well!
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19 hours ago, Samedi said:

Thanks @Inarah. Actually I'm not sure, it just says "for acrylics and oil, but there's some acetone in it, so you may be right.

 

What I forgot to mention was Step 4.5:

First apply another safety coat of Army Painter Satin Spray Varnish, because I have it and never use it much. So there's your acrylic rattle can. 🤭

 

As for the turpentine: I'm way too scared to try that. So I'll just let it sit and let the chemistry do it's thing. Maybe it will stay tacky, maybe it will eventually harden and maybe I'll end up with a blob of slime. We'll see...

 

If I remember I'll post how it went in a few weeks, for science!

 

Also, thanks @Wren, seems we posted at the same time. Since this mini wasn't meant for the table, I take "tacky" and see how it works out.😊

Please share your science results.

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On 9/23/2021 at 1:58 PM, Samedi said:

Thanks @Inarah. Actually I'm not sure, it just says "for acrylics and oil, but there's some acetone in it, so you may be right.

 

What I forgot to mention was Step 4.5:

First apply another safety coat of Army Painter Satin Spray Varnish, because I have it and never use it much. So there's your acrylic rattle can. 🤭

 

As for the turpentine: I'm way too scared to try that. So I'll just let it sit and let the chemistry do it's thing. Maybe it will stay tacky, maybe it will eventually harden and maybe I'll end up with a blob of slime. We'll see...

 

If I remember I'll post how it went in a few weeks, for science!

 

Also, thanks @Wren, seems we posted at the same time. Since this mini wasn't meant for the table, I take "tacky" and see how it works out.😊

 

Their website says it's "Synthetic resin based final varnish. Completely colorless. Rapid drying. Gives a resistant film, but is difficult to reverse. Only apply to completely dry paint.
Thinner: Rectified Turpentine spirit." So it looks like it already contains turpentine and as best I can tell is intended for oil paint rather than acrylics. There is a reasonable chance that the tackiness is the solvent in the varnish reacting with varnish you already put on.

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9 hours ago, cmorse said:

So it looks like it already contains turpentine and as best I can tell is intended for oil paint rather than acrylics. 

 

Thanks for the information, @cmorse

 

On the can it says for acrylics and oils, so the Sennelier varnish has been my go-to for my newer pewter figures so far. I never had any issues - in fact, it worked very well. Always did two coats of Sennelier Gloss followed by a light dusting of AP Anti-Shine and I was very happy with the results. Could be that I was just lucky until now, though... 😊

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8 hours ago, Samedi said:

 

Thanks for the information, @cmorse

 

On the can it says for acrylics and oils, so the Sennelier varnish has been my go-to for my newer pewter figures so far. I never had any issues - in fact, it worked very well. Always did two coats of Sennelier Gloss followed by a light dusting of AP Anti-Shine and I was very happy with the results. Could be that I was just lucky until now, though... 😊

 

I might have looked at the wrong one on their website then. The picture of what I looked at only had oil paints listed on it.

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I didn't back Bones V, but, last I heard, Bones doesn't need primer. The plastic is still hydrophobic, so you can't just apply a wash or water-thinned paint on it. 

 

Dunno the updates, but here's Wren's thread about the "first coat" on Bones : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/48669-bones-the-first-coat-is-the-difference/

Brown liner is (was) a commonly recommended "first coat" : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/68863-base-coating-with-brown-liner/

Chris Palmer has a blog of how he paints Bones, including Bones V. I think he even used craft paint for the "first coat". : https://allbonesabout.blogspot.com/

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