Bones 6 Enthusiasm and Commentary

[haldir]

1 hour ago, Nimphona27 said:

I think another of my gripes with B6 is the strong focus of TWITCH only reveals atm, not everyone has time for Twitch, or an account, nor do they want one... twitch isn't bringing in backers, people coming to see the campaign page aren't necessarily seeing the things that COULD COME if people pledged, like the storm giants, and the dragons.... the things a lot of people want are the bigger pieces especially with the big rise of 3d printers and resin printers... etc..... If this thread didn't exist or someone didn't reply to my comment on the KS i would have no idea dragons had been shown already.... and that doesn't sit right with me really 😞 not even outlines on the KS campaign page....nothing.....nada.......nil points.....

 

Welcome to the new Reaper. It's been this way ever since they discovered their presence on social media more.

[Jeronimus]

I'm more disappointed by the "Green Griffin" expansion, the more I look at it, because the best thing I have to compare it to are the Brinewind Extras from the last campaign. That came in at half price and yet, to me it feels like it had about the same amount of scenery as this entire expansion does; if not more.

 

Now, yes, Brinewind Extras was a very good add-on at a really good price. I like that they're doing more in that vein, and I do find it nice that the scenery here matches with the scenery from that - the table is identical, and the barrels might be as well.

 

Brinewind extras for 25$ had:
- a round table and 4 chairs
- a bar

- two stacks of barrels

- a pier/jetty

- two large crates
- two small crates

- a brace with another pile of barrels

- a cart
- a sloop

- a little shrine

- a shark corpse raft

 

The scenery now is:
- 2 round tables and 8 chairs

- a bar
- a stack of barrels
- 2 rectangular tables and 2 benches
- 2 beds
- a fireplace

- banquet items

... with the rest of the set being 17 figures/creatures, which aren't bad, but aren't extremely unique nor exceptionally useful. Which is not to say they aren't useful at all, but Reaper's stuff is best for gaming, and when I pull out figures in game, it's because there's going to be a fight. I would have loved brawling patrons: someone fighting with a broken chair or flipping a table. If these aren't for game but for display/diorama purposes, then you do want more distinct "scenes" - the stranger in the corner, the gamblers. Or the alternate route of simply crowding the place with more diversity for the NPCs.

Just a bunch of scenery for $25? I went for that last time, I might be tempted. But double that price and it's a much harder sell.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Jeronimus

[Guyra]

That Storm Giant Queen looks overall great - but I'm so tired of boob plates! :roll: I'll get this one, but I do hope they change that.

 

I'd be much happier if they used something actually depicted on art of women in armor from the era this takes inspiration from. The statues
Athena Giustiniani, and Athena Parthenos are good examples.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Guyra

[TaleSpinner]

12 hours ago, Inarah said:

And when are we going to see what @TaleSpinner has been working on?  🙂

Not sure.  The one that should have come up already got rejected by the committee for aesthetic/salability reasons.  No problem, it happens.  The rest were accepted.  I suspect they'll be in the dungeons expansion.

[Guyra]

Reaper, please stop with the misogyny!

• The previewd Storm Giant Queen is wearing boob plate.
• 5/6 women warriors(wearing armor) in the Core Set is wearing boob plate.
• The Green Griffin expansion has male only clientele.
• All the women working at the Green Griffin are apparently all required to have large breasts and show them off as much as possible, with their breasts almost falling out of their clothes on both Holly and Violet. (Miss Rose is uncertain, but only because it's hard to tell from the image.)
• Even the ghost on the Green Griffin is looking like she's clothed and posing for the cover shot of some Halloween edition adult magazine.
• Meanwhile, all the men at the Green Griffin are completely covered - even in layers!
• The Briarwood Vale expansion with the Sylphs, the Kelpies, the Fungal Queen, Daffodil, Lily, and Daisy... just balloon boobs in your face!
• Even in the Shadows of Sullenhall, two of the only three female characters there: Boobs!
• Yes, among the 25 characters of the Sullenhall expansion, only 3 are women. Not even a single "Dame Something" among those knights either, but if there had been, you'd bet there'd be boob plate! ("Oh, but how do you know the other skeletons aren't women?" Because Reaper would've given them boob plates, that's why!)
• A single one of the five gnomes in the Core Set could be a woman, as the mini has no beard.
• And while the zombie villagers were made for Bones 5, why is only one out of four women? I'm pretty sure any given village has roughly the same amount of men as women, so why?

I remember suggesting during one of your live streams to maybe make a miniature of bald women. Not every woman has long, flowing hair. Or hair at all. Your reaction was to interpret it as a joke and laugh.

 

The Storm Giant Queen was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. What's up with the misogyny, Reaper? Like, this isn't really a new thing, but I really hoped you would get better with time! Especially after people called you out on stuff in Bones 5, like the henchmen, and then you made a great henchwomen set! (Even if it had fewer minis in it!) And you made the amazing set of very nude and sexualized succubi and incubi! Great! A female "son of Barty" was thrown in at some point after the KS as an afterthought, but it was pretty darn cool!

 

Give us more like Asandris Nightbloon, Cailleach, Catalina, and Angelica! Amesha is fine, she's a bellydancer - that's classically how they dress when dancing. Stuff like that's okay. But don't make 90% of miniatures of women sexualized, and don't make women a minority in just about every set.

 

You do realize women make up for almost half the D&D community? Not saying there can't be a boob plate now and then, nor that every set needs to have an equal amount of men and women, but it's very obvious the scales are tipped heavily to one side.

 

I'm retracting most of my pledge, from $250 to $10. And I'll come back and see if things have gotten better at some point later in this KS. Because right now, I'm done.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Guyra

[BlackCatHobby]

My thoughts so far:

• I'm not going in for the core, as I'm not particularly interested in most of it. If it was split, as others have been suggesting and maybe will happen, there are one or two things I'd try to pick up (Nightmare, Mud Men, Ants, Gnomes) but overall it is lacking the wow factor of Bones 5 right now. I also think that the straight up reprints of the older metal models are a bit of a misfire. The Bloodstone Golem in particular is a very strange choice.
• I like Briarwood Vale but Sullenhall is a maybe and GG a probably not. GG extras might be cool though. 
• Dungeon Denizens and Lost Tombs are where I'm pinning my hopes right now - they'll be the difference between a very small pledge and a much larger one from me.
• I do like most of the extras, and if the expansions aren't what I hope I'll drop my existing pledge on some of those. I especially like the Hellborn adventurers that are coming, as the little Catfolk and Dragonfolk parties were some of my favourites in Bones 5. 

The Kickstarter comments seem to be worried about slow growth, and I am a bit too. I really want to see the cool stuff that is supposedly coming later on! I saw that Reaper are intending more slow and steady this time round but I worry about momentum. It doesn't seem to have the same social media hype as last time. 

 

Fingers crossed!

[Thoramel]

Checked in to see how safe my wallet is since the first day and it looks like I'm at least adding another $50. That fey expansion is pushing all my hobby buttons right now, especially with those mushroom and tree critters and what looks like some sort of neat fairy dragon. 

 

I'm going to be passing on the tavern set though. I may pick up one or two of the figures when they eventually get to retail, but in general I've already got a ton of bar minis and there's just not enough originality or value in that one for me. However, that graveyard expansion is now a maybe. At first I was thinking I've more than enough skeletons and grave stuff that I don't need it, but the armored skeletons, and the giant skeleton are pretty great and I'd likely end up getting them at retail. That, plus a couple of other pieces I like in there, are probably worth the cost of the entire expansion to me.

 

I'm still sitting well below what I'm planning on putting out for this kickstarter. But having seen some of the previews I'm guessing there's going to be plenty to lure me in. 

 

11 hours ago, ksbsnowowl said:

Jon said on stream the other day that there is no big Cthulhu monster this time. 

 

Well poo. I love the Mythos critters. But folks are right, there's not a ton of big, recognizable monsters from that genre left that Reaper could get the rights for. Instead maybe they should put together a paint set with creepy colors like bruised purple, fresh blood and dungeon slime for use in painting Mythos figures. They could call it the Color Out of Space paint set. 

[StarFyre]

On 4/2/2022 at 6:15 PM, izzylobo said:

 

So, the problem with resin prints from a 3d printer (and even FDM prints to a lesser extent, although they also run into resolution issues in some cases) for me is that the resin minis are just so much more fragile than PVC (floppy, lower resolution), HIPS, Siocast, or metal. I can bounce a well-glued HIPS mini that doesn't have, like, fine antennas or something - just a sword or gun or the like - off the ground without much problem. I can almost run a Bones Classic mini over with a car without damaging it. With a resin cast or print, I've got an unfortunately large chance of having a pile of garbage after gravity has her harsh way with it. Since my minis are (almost) all for the tabletop, not for display or competition, that's a problem - even people who aren't actually clumsy by nature drop things on occasion, and saying "hey, be careful" can cause anxiety surges that make the thing you were trying not to have happen, happen.

 

This is on top of all the other problems that resin minis have (needing a filter mask when cleaning them up, modifying, etc. them, difficulty in assembly in general - some resins just don't.want.to.respect.cyanoacrylate, no mater what you do - priming is sometimes an issue, bubbles and casting problems... oh, and all the obnoxiousness of a resin printer if you're rolling your own.

 

Like, resin works for some people, and that's great! But I'll stick with my plastics and metals until the process gets a little easier, the materials get a little easier to work with, and the resulting prints are a lot more durable so that tabletop use isn't as likely to result in broken minis and bad feels.

 

i get that. not much can say really. i use resin models for D&D along with older metal, gw plastic, bones, etc. all that we have. i dropped my mierce manticore during painting 2 weeks go but its fine. it does depend on the resin. (the best ive seen is whatever Monster Rage used -- someone took a hammer to one of the models' wings and it wouldnt crack...took ages -the wing was thick but still...a hammer). 

 

I just go by designs and detail.  A lot of the nicer print models look much better than the traditional ral partha, reaper, 'insert generic monsters here' companies and i think that is attracting lots of ppl.

 

For priming, GW used to recommend not using hobby primer (even their own) - the forgeworld instructions say to use auto primer. auto primer is thinner/smoother and adheres to better.  whatever chemical is used in resin moulding, when its washed, the remnants dont bother auto primer. I use duplicolor white and i like it so much, i use it for anything i care about - resin, plastic, etc. I use army painter white for bones though as duplicolor, on the older bones ones, doesnt dry properly. took years for kaladrax to dry. 

 

GW plastic i like overall. lots of parts and easy to modify. will see how the new wizkids frameworks balor is.  sadly its price, compared to it's size is crazy. even more costly than GW models.

 

i used to work with resin outside. i do have a proper respirator now (got one due to my airbrush but can use for resin of course)

 

sanjay

 

[Jeronimus]

3 hours ago, Jeronimus said:

I'm more disappointed by the "Green Griffin" expansion, the more I look at it, [...]

 

I don't want to go on about the same thing for too long, but I really, really do want to like it. I think the presentation isn't doing it any favors, for many reasons.

 

There are now five unlocks for a $50 expansion, which means  I'm far more likely to do the math and ask myself "Is this worth $10?" about each individual unlocked step. As soon as I answer 'no' even once, it's going to be hard to pull me back. That first part: a fireplace, a bard, a rowdy patron with some barrels, and two tables? Absolutely, that's a great start. Now that's what I expect, fivefold, because that it establishes $10 is worth. I'd buy that as a set for 10. But then the second part, which ostensibly is also $10, is... four figures? I'm out. 

 

I think the "encounters" also did so well last time because they instantly told a story - a diorama for those who like to paint a scene, and a possible encounter for D&D or other RPGs. I would've hoped they'd kind-of carried that same idea over into expansion design as well. After all, if you're going to reveal your expansions in their entirety anyway (and not tease out the potential expectation of a big piece), then why not sort the minis together to show the potential story here?

I like the first part: a bard singing by the fireplace while someone toasts, that's a fine and dandy start, though it would be better to have the singing patron here, singing along to the bard's song. Reveal the set of tables, with a patron and a serving girl and the food that goes on the table! Put the bartender WITH the bar and a few patrons - perhaps a patron falling asleep on the bar? The ghost seem completely random now... but that would be less so if you put them with the beds. Add a screaming person in a nightcap shooting awake because they've spotted the ghosts and bam, you have a story! 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Jeronimus

[Minsky07]

1 hour ago, Guyra said:

 

Give us more like Asandris Nightbloon, Cailleach, Catalina, and Angelica! Amesha is fine, she's a bellydancer - that's classically how they dress when dancing. Stuff like that's okay. But don't make 90% of miniatures of women sexualized, and don't make women a minority in just about every set.

At first I wanted to object, but you are right. I have seen some feedback on KS page that otherwise minis might not be discerned as female from distance, but perhaps they should not. Not all male figures have the same body type, why would women do. Also even within the same body type, there is no reason to expose as much of the form and skin for female characters. The bigger variety there is the better. At least in my opinion.

[lexomatic]

28 minutes ago, Jeronimus said:

 

I don't want to go on about the same thing for too long, but I really, really do want to like it. I think the presentation isn't doing it any favors, for many reasons.

 

There are now five unlocks for a $50 expansion, which means  I'm far more likely to do the math and ask myself "Is this worth $10?" about each individual unlocked step. As soon as I answer 'no' even once, it's going to be hard to pull me back. That first part: a fireplace, a bard, a rowdy patron with some barrels, and two tables? Absolutely, that's a great start. Now that's what I expect, fivefold, because that it establishes $10 is worth. I'd buy that as a set for 10. But then the second part, which ostensibly is also $10, is... four figures? I'm out.

I disagree the value isn't there.  I think what you're saying is more "I wouldn't buy 10$ worth of things in this set." Which I think a lot of people would probably agree with. My big shift is that there's less I'd spend on at retail, so the appeal of sooner/ cheaper is missing.

At the moment,  there's a few things I'd get if I keep a pledge, but that I wouldnt buy at retail. Hoping to see some stuff I really like, but... still might not be enough. It was bound to happen eventually.

[izzylobo]

21 minutes ago, Minsky07 said:

At first I wanted to object, but you are right. I have seen some feedback on KS page that otherwise minis might not be discerned as female from distance, but perhaps they should not. Not all male figures have the same body type, why would women do. Also even within the same body type, there is no reason to expose as much of the form and skin for female characters. The bigger variety there is the better. At least in my opinion.

 

The problem with "perhaps they should not" is that if there's no obvious representation, there's no representation. You can look at the average 40k battlefield and see (absent a couple of notable exceptions - Sisters of Battle and Drukhari) literally no women on the battlefield at all. This goes beyond the He-Man Wimmen Haterz Club that is the Space Marines° - even the Eldar have a serious problem with representation - the Guardians and Rangers aren't as bad (about half of each squad is women), but how many Farseers? How many Warlocks (not in the fluff - how many minis are clearly identifiable on the table as women?) - how many Autarchs? Or named Champions? The Tau have, apparently, one character who identifies as a woman. The Imperial Guard aren't much better. Heck, the Genestealer Cults have better representation than the Guard does.

 

With helmets on, I can say all I want that my Space Marine Primaris chapter is comprised strictly of women, because everyone's favorite Archmagos figured out the "no gurls please" problem with the geneseed - but without some women's heads on minis, that's not at all going to be obvious, and nobody is going to presume that just looking at the battlefield.

 

(This is totally aside from the question of if the Storm Giantess in question is a good miniature or not - it's just noting that "well, those knights in armor over there are all women, but because they're all in armor, you can't tell" is kind of a cop-out in terms of putting representation on the battlefield/tabletop).

 

°and exempting the groups where they don't even have a genda beyond either eating everything and everyone in sight (Tyrannids) or just skrumpin and crumpin and thumpin and bumpin (Orks)).

 

[emmagine]

4 hours ago, haldir said:

 

Welcome to the new Reaper. It's been this way ever since they discovered their presence on social media more.

Reaper has always seeded teasers in each of their platforms.  Different sneak peaks in each place.   There are folks that really enjoy hunting down all those bits and sharing them across platforms.  It gives people fun things to talk about.   The big dragons will be on the kickstarter page soon.

 

[snitchythedog]

Without getting political, for those folks who do not like particular sculpts you are free not to purchase them and take your money elsewhere.  The market will either punish a company for perceived "bad" products or it will not.  Getting upset and taking "it" personally does not accomplish anything.  My two cents.

[Reaper_Jon]

Ron has said that the armor on giantess is a WIP and was being worked on, so I foresee it being fixed! *Crosses fingers*