Bones 6 Enthusiasm and Commentary

[emmagine]

3 hours ago, Guyra said:

That Storm Giant Queen looks overall great - but I'm so tired of boob plates! :roll: I'll get this one, but I do hope they change that.

 

I'd be much happier if they used something actually depicted on art of women in armor from the era this takes inspiration from. The statues
Athena Giustiniani, and Athena Parthenos are good examples.

The problem with the Giustiniani, is that it would just read as a male miniature.  If no one  came out and said it was female, everyone would assume male.  If there were such a model already in the reaper lineup.... theoretically.... not even one person has theorized the model is female.

The 2nd one just reads as robes / dress.  Conveying the mini is female without emphasizing female traits is not easy, and in many cases not possible.

[MoonglowMinis]

2 hours ago, Guyra said:

Reaper, please stop with the misogyny!

• The previewd Storm Giant Queen is wearing boob plate.
• 5/6 women warriors(wearing armor) in the Core Set is wearing boob plate.
• The Green Griffin expansion has male only clientele.
• All the women working at the Green Griffin are apparently all required to have large breasts and show them off as much as possible, with their breasts almost falling out of their clothes on both Holly and Violet. (Miss Rose is uncertain, but only because it's hard to tell from the image.)
• Even the ghost on the Green Griffin is looking like she's clothed and posing for the cover shot of some Halloween edition adult magazine.
• Meanwhile, all the men at the Green Griffin are completely covered - even in layers!
• The Briarwood Vale expansion with the Sylphs, the Kelpies, the Fungal Queen, Daffodil, Lily, and Daisy... just balloon boobs in your face!
• Even in the Shadows of Sullenhall, two of the only three female characters there: Boobs!
• Yes, among the 25 characters of the Sullenhall expansion, only 3 are women. Not even a single "Dame Something" among those knights either, but if there had been, you'd bet there'd be boob plate! ("Oh, but how do you know the other skeletons aren't women?" Because Reaper would've given them boob plates, that's why!)
• A single one of the five gnomes in the Core Set could be a woman, as the mini has no beard.
• And while the zombie villagers were made for Bones 5, why is only one out of four women? I'm pretty sure any given village has roughly the same amount of men as women, so why?

I remember suggesting during one of your live streams to maybe make a miniature of bald women. Not every woman has long, flowing hair. Or hair at all. Your reaction was to interpret it as a joke and laugh.

 

The Storm Giant Queen was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. What's up with the misogyny, Reaper? Like, this isn't really a new thing, but I really hoped you would get better with time! Especially after people called you out on stuff in Bones 5, like the henchmen, and then you made a great henchwomen set! (Even if it had fewer minis in it!) And you made the amazing set of very nude and sexualized succubi and incubi! Great! A female "son of Barty" was thrown in at some point after the KS as an afterthought, but it was pretty darn cool!

 

Give us more like Asandris Nightbloon, Cailleach, Catalina, and Angelica! Amesha is fine, she's a bellydancer - that's classically how they dress when dancing. Stuff like that's okay. But don't make 90% of miniatures of women sexualized, and don't make women a minority in just about every set.

 

You do realize women make up for almost half the D&D community? Not saying there can't be a boob plate now and then, nor that every set needs to have an equal amount of men and women, but it's very obvious the scales are tipped heavily to one side.

 

I'm retracting most of my pledge, from $250 to $10. And I'll come back and see if things have gotten better at some point later in this KS. Because right now, I'm done.

It's definitely a little sad to see. I do feel there's been improvement.

 

It's also unfortunate that every time this issue comes up people get upset it's even being talked about. Like the Diversity thread I started getting locked because people kept coming in with nasty comments. (and to be fair the conversation stalled out after a page or so)

 

But hopefully people continuing to bring up this subject will show that it is important and we'll continue to see improvements.

 

And hopefully others can show kindness to a frustration that is a bit more nuanced than simply "not liking" a product. 

[Great Khan Artist]

You can still buy the terrain. At least in the English language, it has no gender. 

[Reaper_Jon]

Bigger look of the Giant Skeleton in the Sullenhall expansion.

 

[TGP]

4 minutes ago, Reaper_Jon said:

Bigger look of the Giant Skeleton in the Sullenhall expansion.

 

I wish you guys would do this fellow in a second version. Same weapons, same pose, but as he was in life. Flail is the same but the sword is intact, armor is in better shape, trousers, maybe he sports a short beard?

[StarFyre]

if i could get the giant on its own, i would get that. would go nice with the ones i have already....

 

sanjay

[Divaricatus]

Suggestion: can we  give the diversity discussion a section for itself in this forum?

[Chaoswolf]

MOD VOICE:

 

 

Drop the conversation about boob plate, female armor or lack thereof,  over sexualization or anything 

else along those lines. 

 

The issue has been brought to Reaper's attention. Pending some sort of official response,  please let the issue lie for now.

[TGP]

Edit: oops, I musta cross-posted with your comment @Chaoswolf Sorry. 
 

I like the storm giant sculpt. She would make a good statue. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Chaoswolf
Removed qoute and response to female armor

[Nunae]

Really happy to see the Alicorn in the Fey Expansion. Second the wish for some male Fairies/Sprites for a Fan Favorite or just as options.

I always like the creature groups Reaper designs, as they usually are more fun and characterful than those of competitors. I run Reaper Orcs, Kobolds, Goblins, Ogres and Giants almost exclusively. But I'd also like to see more female monsters for the "ugly" creatures. The Ogre Matriach is great and I love her, but I'd like to see 1-2 more Ogre women with axes or clubs to go with the 5-6 Ogre men.

Within this kickstarter the Townsguard in the Coreset (very nice and versatile sculpts) could also use equally no-frills female Townsguard to bolster their ranks. 

 

Not sure if this qualifies as diversity discussion or request discussion. 

[Werkrobotwerk]

1 hour ago, izzylobo said:

 

The problem with "perhaps they should not" is that if there's no obvious representation, there's no representation. You can look at the average 40k battlefield and see (absent a couple of notable exceptions - Sisters of Battle and Drukhari) literally no women on the battlefield at all. This goes beyond the He-Man Wimmen Haterz Club that is the Space Marines° - even the Eldar have a serious problem with representation - the Guardians and Rangers aren't as bad (about half of each squad is women), but how many Farseers? How many Warlocks (not in the fluff - how many minis are clearly identifiable on the table as women?) - how many Autarchs? Or named Champions? The Tau have, apparently, one character who identifies as a woman. The Imperial Guard aren't much better. Heck, the Genestealer Cults have better representation than the Guard does.

 

With helmets on, I can say all I want that my Space Marine Primaris chapter is comprised strictly of women, because everyone's favorite Archmagos figured out the "no gurls please" problem with the geneseed - but without some women's heads on minis, that's not at all going to be obvious, and nobody is going to presume that just looking at the battlefield.

 

(This is totally aside from the question of if the Storm Giantess in question is a good miniature or not - it's just noting that "well, those knights in armor over there are all women, but because they're all in armor, you can't tell" is kind of a cop-out in terms of putting representation on the battlefield/tabletop).

 

°and exempting the groups where they don't even have a genda beyond either eating everything and everyone in sight (Tyrannids) or just skrumpin and crumpin and thumpin and bumpin (Orks)).

 

I recommend just looking to places that are not GW. 

I have a large pile of excellent bad squiddo post apoc girls I'm currently painting, and rbjgames makes a bunch of very reasonable uniformed woman, then there's Victoria who makes regiment upon regiment, and bombshell makes primarus women, and mantic's scout marine equivalent is 2/5 women. 

 

As for eldar, raging heroes?

 

If you want more info we should probably go discuss it in another thread in a different part of the forum. 

[Guindyloo]

I saw a comment about the 30th anniversary dragon only being shown off on twitch, but it is actually teased in the video on the kickstarter page, you can see the time stamp in the screencap below:

 

 

Also, just to be clear, whenever something is teased on the twitch shows, I check the forum to make sure that the pic made it here. They're always posted by someone well before I make it on to check.

If you look at the info thread - Jon was editing in pics to the first post while he was live on screen on twitch to make sure they were making it to the forum.

 

Sometimes things get missed because there are so many places to be and so many things to do but it's never on purpose that things don't get brought here. But we don't tend to re-post things that have already made it here unless there's a better quality pic or more info to add.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Guindyloo

[StarFyre]

i do want that dragon. (it needs to be bigger damnit!) 😛 

 

sanjay

[Magnus Brickson]

So far I'm only in for the core set.  I might bump up for the paint, since $1.50/bottle is pretty damn good.

 

• I want to see what the Egyptian-themed expansion looks like, because that's a historical period I've always loved.
• Hard pass on the chibi.  Just not a style that appeals to me, but I respect there's an audience for them.
• Likely pass on the undead and the tavern, as I have no need for the large structures.  A few of the figures look nice, though.
• Fae/Fey is a small maybe.
• Orcs add-on is another maybe.  I really like those sculpts, but I have so many orcs already, both from Reaper and WotC's own pre-painted line from the D&D 3.x days. Same for the Gnolls

[aku-chan]

That Skelly Giant is so cool! Pity I don't want the rest of that set.

I also really like that Storm Giantess, but she's getting her nipples filed off!